Discovery and Delights: Stephanie Hurne's Journey as an Independent Author

Business as UNusual Ep 10 - Season 3 Transcript

Aicila [00:00:00]:

Hi. Welcome to Business is Unusual. I'm here with Stephanie, and, I'm really excited to have you back on the show to talk about what you're up to. Welcome.

Stephanie Hurne [00:00:10]:

Hi. I'm well happy to be here again. It's so nice to see you again.

Aicila [00:00:14]:

Yes. I love catching up. And I wanna dive into what you've been up to and the work that you do because it's very interesting in your new developments.

Stephanie Hurne [00:00:23]:

I am an independent author. I spend my time making up worlds alongside everything else I have to do in my life. And then I edit them, work with editors, work with cover designers, learn how to market, work with narrators to create the audiobook. And I'm currently learning how to edit audiobooks. So it's a big skill set, but, you know, it's fun to learn things sometimes.

Aicila [00:00:54]:

Yeah. It's like well and one of the things that I find to be interesting to delve into is the indie author path is definitely a many hats kind of path. Right? Like, it's not traditional publishing where you get in advance and somebody runs everything for you. Like, you were saying you have to learn all these skills. What is the, I guess, that balance of you get to learn these things, and then, obviously, you have to do things, but it there has to be some satisfaction in it, or I would assume that you would throw your hands up in the air after the halfway through book 1, and you're on, what, book 4. Right? So Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the the payoff, I guess, in terms of what what keeps you going? What what makes that that large scale, many hats? Oh, I have to learn a new skill today experience worth going with for you, specifically?

Stephanie Hurne [00:01:58]:

For me, I think it comes down to I like entertaining people. Mhmm. I like knowing that in real life, I like to crack at the right the right joke at the right time and get the laugh and all that stuff, tell the funny story. And in my books, I like to write twists and turns and dark characters, like, to keep people engaged and to just entertain them for a little, like, a little tiny slice of their day. That's Mhmm. I think what keeps me going. Either that or it's insanity, I don't know.

Aicila [00:02:31]:

Maybe both. I mean, we can't. So you talk about creating worlds. Are your books set in different universes, or are they all set in the same world? Or or gamut of options for people to sample?

Stephanie Hurne [00:02:52]:

The Paige Hanson trilogy, which is the diseased body count and maternal instincts, is all set on earth 2. So it's it's like a little it's got a little bit of dystopia. I call it a dystopian thriller. And if you were ever lucky enough to read my very, very first book back in 2018, which is no longer available other than an audio, then you'll get the Easter egg that earth 2 is what's created at the end of the light series. Because I just like putting Easter eggs in there for me. But long weekend, which is my latest one, which is a stand alone that's coming out in April, That's just set in our world. That's just popcorn thriller. Nice.

Aicila [00:03:45]:

So what what happened to your book? Why isn't it available?

Stephanie Hurne [00:03:50]:

Because I want to rewrite it. I've come on a long way since 2018, and I believe in the story. I believe in the characters. I think I can do them more justice now. So that's on my list to rewrite that and republish that.

Aicila [00:04:07]:

I get

Aicila [00:04:07]:

that. I sometimes wanna go back and redo old podcast episodes because I'm like, man, I could have done a better job for my people. Because I love you all so much. I love that you show up and you share your passions and your life and your time with me, the people who are listening, because they just feel this is how I inspire myself as I connect with other people that are doing interesting, unique, passionate things in the world so that I remember I'm not alone in believing there is more possible than a grind. Yeah.

Stephanie Hurne [00:04:39]:

I like that.

Aicila [00:04:41]:

So I feel that whether it's character or person, I think there's a beauty in being committed to the best we can do. So

Stephanie Hurne [00:04:51]:

Yeah. Definitely.

Aicila [00:04:54]:

So either as an author I don't want when we talked before, one of the things that I really appreciated about your approach was this learning all these skills and and wanting to get to a place where you could help other authors. And and, also, you are an author. So in in either of those contexts, how would you describe success? Like, what do you feel when you sit down and think, this is how I know I'm I'm doing what I set out to do?

Stephanie Hurne [00:05:27]:

That's a tough question because on the one hand, you've got success as breaking financially even. Mhmm. So it costs x amount of money to publish a book. And if I sell this many copies, I'll make this much money back, which is definitely a driver because I I don't wanna be hemorrhaging money forever. Right. But on the other hand, you could sell a 100 copies of the book and a 100 readers could hate it. So the success is also you might not financially break even, but the people that have read the book really, really enjoy it and feel passionate about your characters. So I think it's balancing the 2 because, yes, you can be the kind of author that only cares about reviews and just cares about the art, But then you're gonna end up in a place that you can't afford to publish anymore, and you don't want to necessarily be the kind of author that just wants the money because that can be a bit soulless and readers can pick up on that in your work.

Stephanie Hurne [00:06:32]:

So I think for success, for me, anyway, I can't speak for everybody in before they come to me, it's balancing the 2. It's knowing that it's running it like a business. You know, you've got to break even. Otherwise, you can't keep going.

Aicila [00:06:47]:

Mhmm.

Stephanie Hurne [00:06:47]:

But I want that passion and that honesty and that connection with my readers still. And I I it means so much to me. It's only happened a few times, but when readers have actually reached out to me to say how much they enjoyed my book, like, that's literally made my year when that's happened.

Aicila [00:07:03]:

So I hear that. The I, I have never seen my podcast as a potential revenue source. I mean, if somebody wanted to sponsor it, I'd be great for that. But I I my goal is to offer this information and support. And but I agree. Like, there's a point at which the the amount of time and money that goes into creating something, you might run out of it. Or you might have something else that you need to be doing more, or you could have health issues. So so there has to be something that that creates it as a sustainable practice, and and also letting you continue to feel that sense of, like, wonder and delight at creating something.

Aicila [00:07:44]:

Yeah. It's a good advice. I don't know if it was intended as that, but I'm

Stephanie Hurne [00:07:48]:

taking it as that. Let's say it was.

Aicila [00:07:51]:

You know, I talk about business as unusual, and it's it's everything from how you're doing your business to what you're focused on. What what is it that you feel is unusual about what you're up to?

Stephanie Hurne [00:08:13]:

What makes it unusual? I don't honestly know. It's a very big pond, is the indie publishing industry, and there's a heck of a lot of fish in it. So I wouldn't like to put my hand up and say, you know, I'm a working I work full time. I've got 2 children. That makes me different or all of you know, there's gonna be countless people in my situation. So I don't think I am unique or an I'm definitely unusual, but I'm not unique.

Aicila [00:08:49]:

I hear you. So I have a friend also who's an indie author, and she's really appreciated that there's a slice of the indie author community. And I feel like based on what I've seen of what you're up to is very similar, is very kind, and community oriented, and supportive. And from what I understand about traditional publishing, that is unusual. There Yeah. There's a lot of cutthroat, competitive, gross behavior, and I feel like there's a slice of the indie author community that actually is kinda what you're talking about. They're in that that that sweet spot of really caring about producing art and wanting that connection and also caring about being sustainable. And I would add the 3rd piece is they care about bringing other people into that sustainability.

Aicila [00:09:42]:

You're not it's not just I need to succeed. There's this whole so I think in some ways, maybe you already answered the question, and I unfairly asked it again. I guess talking about that other piece, I think, looking for that balance, not trying to settle for 1 or the other. And It's

Stephanie Hurne [00:09:59]:

it's definitely a very supportive community when you find the right part of it. The, like, the Wide for the Win Facebook group. Whenever I've got a question, I can go in there and literally within 5 minutes, I've got 14 other indie authors with their advice saying what worked for them, what didn't, what might work for me. It's it's brilliant and my friends Alison and, Caroline I've met who are both writers as well. We've just met randomly online. We're always chatting to each other, offering to help you. It's, yeah, it's just a lovely community. Yeah.

Aicila [00:10:35]:

I think we need more of that in the world. It's I feel like there's so many people who are isolated and lonely and dealing with, like, you, work and family and other constraints, and just having those connections, that community makes such a difference in the day to day.

Stephanie Hurne [00:10:55]:

Yes. It does. It definitely helps make it slightly less lonely

Aicila [00:10:58]:

at times. So who who do you think loves your books? Like, I mean, you've had fan interactions at this point. Do they have anything in common? Is it is it more sort of it strikes the fancy of of folks so there's

Stephanie Hurne [00:11:15]:

no real theme that you've seen? Definitely more women. Yeah. But I think, as a rule, women tend to read my genres more. So that's obviously skewed. But other than that, there's no sort of age range I've noticed or anything like that. It's very varied. It generally I have noticed this tend to be relatively liberal in their thinking, at least the ones that I've spoken to, which makes sense because I am, and therefore, I imagine I write in that style. So, yeah, I imagine if you engage with something that says, for example, homophobia is wrong, then you're quite liberal, and you're gonna like my books, and you're gonna like me, and I'm gonna like you.

Stephanie Hurne [00:12:01]:

Because Mhmm. I write what I know, and people read what they like. So yeah.

Aicila [00:12:07]:

What? Do you have, like, a favorite fan interaction that you could share, or does that feel too weird?

Stephanie Hurne [00:12:16]:

Hang on a second. I wanna make sure I say her name right. I think she's Shilabian. Sorry. You can I just wanna make sure I get it right? But, anyway, basically, she read my first book, and she left Ramona. So she left not not a fantastic review. It wasn't a terrible review. It was just this book's not for me.

Stephanie Hurne [00:12:46]:

And like I always say, not every book's for every reader and that's absolutely fine. And then we ended up that was it. So yeah. So she left this review of the disease saying, not really for her. She wasn't a fan of it. And I I didn't reply because you should never reply to your reviews. But, obviously, I see it, and I just that is what it is. I I took some of her feedback on board, and then I posted up looking for beta readers for long weekend, and she put her hand up.

Stephanie Hurne [00:13:20]:

So I sent her a copy, and we just got very friendly. Just exchanging lots of messages. She had some brilliant feedback on as one of my first readers, I'm definitely gonna use her services again. And, yeah, we're just sort of supporting each other online now. And that's definitely been one of my favorites because, like I said to her, I know she's honest. Yeah. She's not just being nice to me because she put her hand up and said she didn't like my first book, which is absolutely fine. Yeah.

Stephanie Hurne [00:13:53]:

That's probably my definitely my favorite. Just because it's been the most interesting. It hasn't just been somebody going, oh, I love you. I love your work. It's been somebody, like, oh, I'm not too I'm not I think you can do better than that. And Mhmm. Turns out, thanks to people like her, I can. So

Aicila [00:14:06]:

That is awesome. I love that. I love that that she also was able to say it in a way that you could receive, and that you were able to hear it and understand. And I've heard that from other authors that you're never you don't you don't respond to reviews. 1 of my, author friends is like, I don't read them unless people tag me. She's like, that's none of my business. But I was like, that's so interesting. I I mean, it makes sense once I think about it, but it's not something that I had any reason to think about.

Aicila [00:14:35]:

So I just sort of, I guess, would have assumed that you did. But that that seems psychologically damaging, actually. Actually think about it like it's fucked.

Stephanie Hurne [00:14:46]:

Like I've got somebody who's commented on one of the audiobooks about the quality of it, and I just wanna reply because I wanna ask them where they got it so I can sort it out, but you just don't ever reply to reviews.

Aicila [00:15:00]:

Yeah. Yeah. No. That makes sense too to wanna know. So you'd be like, well, if it's bad quality, I'd like to track that down. What has surprised you most in this journey of yours?

Stephanie Hurne [00:15:11]:

The cost of things has definitely been a surprise, And I don't mean things like editing or cover design, like the things that you would expect to cost money. But having to pay to get your synopsis put on certain bookstores, that was a surprise. And that's sort of when you start to realize sort of I don't wanna use the phrase them and us because traditional authors aren't the enemy or anything like that. But publishing houses Mhmm. They can afford to do all these things, these 100 little tiny things, and indie authors can't. And I never saw that side of that when I was a reader, obviously. So that's been quite surprising. And also to know how much the publishing industry in general must shell out on all this this little stuff.

Stephanie Hurne [00:16:02]:

Like, it must be ridiculous. I think the supportive side of the community has been a really, really lovely surprise. Because before I sort of discovered these groups that are supportive, it was very much it felt like a a dog eat dog situation.

Aicila [00:16:26]:

And, you

Stephanie Hurne [00:16:26]:

know, it's it's indie authors against traditional authors, and we're gonna, like, fight up and raise the power, and you're my competition and blah blah blah blah blah. And so to find the communities where everybody wants to succeed and we all lift each other up and we tell each other things and help each other where we can. I mean, I don't help as much as others because I'm a lot new newer to this journey. But where I can help, I do try. And, also, I've I've spoken to a couple of traditional authors just for as being a reader. I've met reached out to them to tell them how much I've enjoyed their books. And and they've replied and they've been lovely. And so they're definitely not the enemy.

Stephanie Hurne [00:17:06]:

And that gives me a bit of a fangirl moment when they reply. But Mhmm. Yeah. But yeah. So that's definitely the highs and lows, I think. The lows being the cost and the highs being the community.

Aicila [00:17:17]:

Mhmm.

Aicila [00:17:17]:

That makes sense. Yeah. I feel like to I saw a a video series on musicians and actors, and it it really highlighted how many of them come from money. And that's how they get there. And, you know, they they pay either they don't have to pay their bills because they've they've got things covered so they can afford to be a starving artist for a decade while they try to get things going, or they pay, you know, 50, a 100, $200,000 to market an album or or something like that. And and so and then what happens is folks like us, we think, oh, if we were more exciting or, you know, so that we'd be successful. But the the that gap of the 100 of 1,000 of dollars of investment that we don't have to give is actually a part of it. And I feel like that's also why, from my perspective, when we have these passions, we have to find ways to make them sustainable in terms of both the financial outlay and also the energetic outlay.

Aicila [00:18:19]:

You know, like, I I really with a lot of the people that I work with, and, you know, they're doing small businesses, but similarly, they're trying something new, so they're usually innovating in some way. And I always start with don't do things that drain you. I mean there's a couple things you have to do like dealing with your accounting, your taxes. We're getting into tax season here so that's really on my mind, but but you have to do that whether it drains you or not. But, like, if if you hate social media, I'm, like, don't do social media. Like, we'll we'll find another way, or we'll find a way to do it. It is so minimal that it doesn't bother you. Like, whatever it is, let's get you out of that because you have to be energetically sustainable as well as financially sustainable because you have to be able to handle you have to be able to hang in for a longer time when you don't have those infusions of just random cash lying around.

Stephanie Hurne [00:19:09]:

That would be nice,

Aicila [00:19:10]:

wouldn't it? Yeah, right? Like when your money tree is a little bit plucked. I'm like, you gotta be able to stick it out. Right? And I think that's also important for artists to remember. I feel like before I saw that video series, you know, I didn't know, like, that that Kid Rock was one of the big ones. Like, I'm not a Kid Rock fan, but I I know about Kid Rock. He's, like, a you know, he comes from money. Like, his whole anti establishment thing. Yes.

Aicila [00:19:41]:

I'm like I know. Right? And you're just like, what? And it it just kind of peeled back that that curtain a little bit for me to recognize that we tell these stories, and and sometimes we want them to be seen as stories of hope and, like, lean into your dream, but they also are a little deceptive because then folks that are like, well, I'm not getting there. Well, yeah. But you don't have someone paying all your bills so that you can just focus on your art, and you don't have a way to invest all money. You have to make it work in between taking out the garbage and going to work and driving your kid to the doctor and getting your laundry done and like and and and and and. So the fact that you're not like there yet is actually kind of reasonable. And so how do you feel that sense of your own competence, competence, I guess, instead of being judgy of yourself? Like, I think many of us can be really hard on ourselves because we we think that, oh, we this this is how it could be. Well yeah.

Aicila [00:20:46]:

And there's this also this other more, I would say, hidden, I guess, advantage or privilege that people have that, you know, that the narrative of the starving artist leaves out?

Stephanie Hurne [00:21:00]:

I didn't know that about Kid Rock. I can't go.

Aicila [00:21:02]:

No. Right? No. You see, that's how I felt. Like, you're like, what?

Stephanie Hurne [00:21:18]:

I'm gonna have to do some giggling after

Aicila [00:21:21]:

this. Yeah. It's my gift to you. So, yeah. And and that and that's how I felt, like, that feeling of, like, oh, wait a minute. I bought this story that Yeah. Is not Actually, it's consistently not true. And there's a freedom in that too, of realizing like, Oh, my efforts they might be just fine.

Aicila [00:21:45]:

They might be even more. I might be more successful than that person even though because I I don't have all these other things backing me up.

Stephanie Hurne [00:21:56]:

I don't know if it's true or not, but I read somewhere that you can actually buy your way onto the New York bestseller list.

Aicila [00:22:07]:

Mhmm.

Aicila [00:22:07]:

I have seen that as well.

Stephanie Hurne [00:22:09]:

By bulk buying. And on the list, there's, like, an icon, isn't there, that shows if it if the numbers are made up of bulk buys.

Aicila [00:22:18]:

Mhmm.

Stephanie Hurne [00:22:19]:

So if I could afford to buy a 100,000 copies of my book and I think since I've heard that, it's made me look at like you say, like, look at it a bit differently.

Aicila [00:22:32]:

Mhmm.

Stephanie Hurne [00:22:33]:

Because it feels like every book's on the New York bestseller list at the moment.

Aicila [00:22:38]:

Yep. No. There's a lot of things like that. Like, a lot of, conferences that have keynote speakers, those speakers pay the conference to be a speaker. No. So yes. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And and a lot of those

Stephanie Hurne [00:22:56]:

at Yeah.

Aicila [00:22:57]:

Right? Like, and then a lot of the the lists, like, the 10 best CEOs at x, y, or z, Also, they pay for that. People that write for the Forbes group, like, you know, the Forbes Exchange, they pay to be in that group. There are so many things that when you peel it back, you're like, oh, this is not based on, you know, people's let me let me walk that back because I don't wanna discount that people could have something worthy to say or that they have. I'm not even gonna say that lots of people who pay for those things, they come up with it by maxing their credit card out so that they can leverage themselves into yeah. Get them get themselves into that audience. And so I'm not gonna diminish it, but but just realizing, like, if they haven't called you up to approach you for it, it's probably because they want a 3, 4, 5, $25,000 check, and they don't think you're gonna write that to them. And and that that's business as usual. That's that's a lot of how the game is played.

Aicila [00:23:59]:

And that's part of why I I feel like, you know, for the rest of us, it's community, it's connection, it's sustainability, it's lifting each other up, and and creating opportunities together because I don't know. That feels more delightful to me. I mean, maybe if I had the the the money tree, I'd be like, yeah. I'll just do it. I I haven't had a money tree, so I don't know. And there's also I get a lot of satisfaction in doing things. I I like that the opportunity to to get to know people and create community and engage and and be part of this moment with you. I think it's important for people to understand that narrative so that they don't get down on themselves.

Aicila [00:24:44]:

Like you said, like, why is that person on the bestseller list? I read their book. It's not that great. Well, they could afford to buy a 100,000 copies. Yeah. There's a lot of insider stuff like that too in the different industries where, like you said, like, the traditional industry had their methodology for creating demand or creating accolades. And, ultimately, whatever it is, the the group or the item or the situation, it's made up of people, and and we are flawed. Which is true. We're flawed, and we're easily influenced, and we're or at least influenceable.

Aicila [00:25:19]:

That's partially why it's also really important to believe in yourself and believe in the power of your passion and your dream, and and to, like, check yourself. Like, am I being kind to the people in my world? Do I contribute to my community? Do I keep my word? I know this sounds really basic, but I feel like that's the place that we could kind of remember to to be grounded here in the things that are a little bit more enduring.

Stephanie Hurne [00:25:42]:

Yeah. Absolutely. You should leave the what is it? You should leave the world a better place than you found it. I fully

Aicila [00:25:50]:

believe it. Same. Yeah. And that's and and that's day to day, person by person more than anything else. And if I ever get a money tree, I will super buy a 100,000 copies of your book. So your new book, when is your new book coming out? April 16th. Awesome. Alright.

Aicila [00:26:09]:

So that'll be in a couple weeks. Catch it up. Do you have a newsletter or like, a fake you talk about Facebook groups? Are there is there a way for people to stay up to date on what you're up to?

Stephanie Hurne [00:26:20]:

Yeah. Absolutely. If you go to www.smformother, thomas.co.uk, on there, you can find links to all of my books. Well, long weekend will be posted there soon. I'm just waiting to do the preorders. You can also sign up for the newsletter that's gonna start on February 18th. That's my thing this year is I'm gonna start sending a monthly newsletter with information on what I'm up to and also promotions from my fellow indie authors. And you can also find links to my socials on there.

Stephanie Hurne [00:26:56]:

I'm under s m thomaswrites on most things. So I'm on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, doing silly lip sync videos. And I am on Twitter, but I don't or x, but I don't really use it that much, if I'm honest. Yeah.

Aicila [00:27:13]:

It's too much. Yeah. No. I kind of abandoned that too. And I miss some of my people from over there because I had, like, a really great community, but it just got not for me.

Stephanie Hurne [00:27:25]:

Yeah. It got a lot, didn't it?

Aicila [00:27:27]:

Mhmm. So and then let's see. Anything else that you wanted to talk about or that feels up for you?

Stephanie Hurne [00:27:38]:

No. No. She's like, no, we're good.

Aicila [00:27:41]:

All right. Well, thanks everybody for listening. I hope you enjoyed my chat with Stephanie. I certainly did.

Stephanie Hurne [00:27:46]:

Me too. Thanks for being

Aicila [00:27:47]:

here. Yay.

Stephanie Hurne [00:27:48]:

Thank you for having me.

Aicila [00:27:50]:

Oh, it was delightful.