Beyond Judgment: Finding Joy in Diversity with Patty Bates-Ballard

Business as UNusual Ep 19 - Season 3 Transcript

Edited s3e19 Patty Bates-Ballard

[00:00:00] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Hello, welcome to business as unusual. I'm here today with Patty Bates-Ballard, and we're going to talk about WordSmooth. Am I saying that correctly?

[00:00:12] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Word Smooth.

[00:00:13] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: WordSmooth. Oh, that makes more sense. I have a, I don't know what it is about me. Maybe it's because I've read so much as a child. My pronunciation of everything is generally unique.

[00:00:26] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: I put the, what is it? I put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. It is my, it's my, my special gift. Well, thank you so much for coming and joining us today to talk about your business. I'm really excited. I, we tried, we had an attempt a while back and technology created a special gift of not letting our video connect or something, so I was really grateful that you were willing to try again.

[00:00:49] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: And this time it went pretty smoothly.

[00:00:52] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yes, and the timing actually turned out to be perfect. [00:00:56] because because I have my new book.

[00:00:58] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Wow. That has to feel great.

[00:00:59] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: in [00:01:00] the interim I finished my book. Yeah.

[00:01:06] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: What an accomplishment. We're going to talk about that, we're going to talk about your business and then anything else that comes up, can we start, we'll tell folks a little bit about what your business is.

[00:01:14] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: So WordSmooth is my small business, I call myself CEO and we, we help teams communicate effectively across differences so they can fulfill their mission. And so we have a Harvest Respect program that offers organizational assessments and learning programs and conflict resolution and more. I am a trained mediator and I'm author of a book, ACE-ing Conflict, which focuses on how to respond effectively when someone says something hurtful or insensitive. And then my brand new book is inspired by my son, Kory, my son, Kory, and it's called Judgment or [00:02:00] Joy: 33 ways that my son taught me to stop judging, love myself, and embrace connections.

[00:02:08] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Wow.

[00:02:09] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: The background is his finger painting. So yes.

[00:02:16] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: That’s lovely. Looks like we have two things and maybe we can talk about your, your business a little bit in the context of the book, so that. We can touch on both because I'd love to have people get a sense of both. And my personal experience is that judgment is a big barrier to effective communication in conflict.So it seems like there might be a tie in

[00:02:36] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: I wrote the book ACE-ing Conflict and because personally, I needed it. I needed to know how to respond effectively. And so many clients would come to me and say, Oh, we had a situation where a client, a customer, or an employee. Said something hurtful and insensitive and nobody knew how to respond. So that's why [00:03:00] I wrote the original book, ACE-ing Conflict, because the research shows that that's true. We really, none of us are very good at responding. We either tend to just come on out and condemn someone or we just kind of hem and haw in awkward silence.

[00:03:18] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And neither of those two responses is very effective. They don't address the issue. And a lot of times they can damage the relationship. So ACE-ing Conflict comes from a place of curiosity so that, well, yes, I'm going to express my opinion, but first the curiosity opens up the window of communication so that I ask and I clarify first before I express the A-C-E.

[00:03:43] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And so by, by being curious, I open up the window of communication. So hopefully someone can receive what I think and feel about the situation. And so in, in teaching this process over, [00:04:00] you know, hundreds, maybe thousands of times, we've seen how effective ACE-ing Conflict can be to kind of smooth out situations where not only does it not damage a relationship, but also it actually can deepen a relationship. So, curiosity. Is a really great place to start when we're trying to communicate effectively across differences. But what I discovered in the process was of teaching ACE-ing Conflict, it's kind of hard to get curious when someone has said something insensitive.

[00:04:40] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: hmm. Hmm.

[00:04:41] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Just not our natural response to be curious when someone says something insensitive. And so that's where the new book comes in. Judgment or Joy because what I found is that we're often unable to be curious because we're stuck in judgment.

[00:04:58] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Hmm.

[00:04:58] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And so [00:05:00] when I really began to explore why that is and where that comes from, that's where the new book came out. And, and it's all inspired by my son, Kory, who was the most joyful, vibrantly joyful person I've ever known.

[00:05:14] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And a little bit ironic because I, his mother, for at least the first part of my life, I might have been the most judgmental person you've ever known. So I, I felt a need to write that book as well as a personal, personal journey.

[00:05:33] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Yeah. Something I've observed is that we are often the most skilled at the things that we are the least natural at in a certain way, that we Yeah, I'm a, I'm a really good strategic and organizational thinker, and the inside of my brain is a chaotic spiral of 73 things going at once. And I, I like to joke that the reason I became a very effective project manager is [00:06:00] because in order to function, I had to learn how to project manage my own brain.

[00:06:04] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Absolutely. Right. We teach what we need to learn.

[00:06:07] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: right? Yeah, it's like I had a huge motivation to sort that out because there are things I wanted to do. And so similarly, I think it's a beautiful gift when you can get present to, Oh, I have some ways that I engage that I'm not super excited about the outcome or the impact. And then just to dig in to, to learn how to be different.

[00:06:24] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: And then to share that because I 100 percent guarantee you're not the most judgmental person ever. And. We all have the need to, to really work to understand that and to, to create more comfort with being clear in ourselves and having that discernment.

[00:06:40] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yeah. So two things about that. I, Well, you're now seeing the after version, after Kory, and I learned everything from him.

[00:06:48] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: fair.

[00:06:49] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: But also beforehand, I was really nice about my judgments, and I didn't speak them out loud all that often, but yeah, if you could read my mind, [00:07:00] there was a lot of judgment. I was raised to, you know, from a faith-based perspective that judging people is wrong. And so I was very busy judging all the judgmental people. [00:07:11]

[00:07:13] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: it's interesting. Right. So are you able to share, sort of an example, I find that can be helpful for people, especially with something like this, it's incredibly practical, , without obviously disclosing anything that would be confidential, a moment with a group or a client or even an interpersonal one where there was like, a specific. So someone said this thing and it caused this reaction. And this is what the curiosity piece led to. So I break it down like that.

[00:07:46] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yeah. Oh, so many, Probably the most memorable for me that sticks out is I was in a break room when I had an actual job and we were, [00:08:00] something big was happening on the TV. Some kind of terrorist attack was happening, I think. And there was a very lively discussion between the newscaster and some, and this expert who was an African American man. And he had all kinds of experience with terrorism and he was talking about what he thought. And this white guy in the room just said that, and he said the N word, doesn't know what he's talking about. And, you know, my stomach was turning and churning and I just, Yeah, I just wanted to run out of the room or just, you know, do something that would be inappropriate in a lot of ways. But I did, I called on this, this process that I've been using for years, and I tried to find a place of curiosity. And I said, [00:09:00] Oh, do you know that guy, do you know, do you know him? And he said no, he, you know, but obviously he's just repeating talking points. And I said, huh, well, so, and so then, after I was curious for a moment, then I clarified.

[00:09:22] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: So you see him as just someone who doesn't really know what he's talking about and just repeating talking points. I'm, I'm curious how you feel comfortable using that word. That word that is so hurtful to so many, and he then began to tell me about this time in his life earlier in his life when he was friends with a group of art students and they all used the word. And so then I went into curiosity about that and I said, Oh, and you, you're sure that they were comfortable, because many of them were black, I said, [00:10:00] you're sure that they were comfortable with you using the word. And he, so do you think it's possible maybe they weren't that comfortable, but they just didn't say anything? And he thought some more about it and you know, at the end of that conversation, I said, I don't ever want to hear you say that again.

[00:10:20] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And I think it's a really awful word. Please don't ever say it again. And I think that he, you know, he, I was able to open through that, through those questions and the restating and checking with what really was behind this. I think he was able to begin thinking a different way about it. And then the next day I sent him the resume of this expert who had been on TV so he knew that actually he knew a lot about what he was talking about. So that's, that's an example of how it can work. I, I've also used it with my child's teacher one time when she said she called the, the [00:11:00] room full of children a bunch of wild Indians and monkeys or something like that. And it was a majority Latino and African American group of kids. And so I came in after and I talked to her and even, you know, just coming in,

[00:11:17] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: she knew. Oh, goodness. I might need to think about what did I say? So we had a really productive conversation. I was asking her, how did, you know, how did she decide to use that language and where did it come from? And, she had already begun rethinking it just by virtue of me saying, I wanted to have a meeting and she actually thanked me for the conversation and I've seen that happen more than you would think that people actually, appreciate being asked to think more deeply about these things that just kind of come, they're just coming out of the back, back recesses of our minds.

[00:11:49] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And we don't often realize what we're saying until it's too late. So sometimes people really thank me for not condemning them, but just gently [00:12:00] prodding them to think a little bit more deeply about. It's not about being politically correct. It's really about how do we connect? How do we work together in a way that where we do respect each other and we demonstrate respect for each other?

[00:12:17] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Thank you. And thank you for saying that last part because I feel like there's been some dismissal of the power of language by, by using terminology like politically correct to, to indicate that it's, a froofy thing or something instead of recognizing that no, actually how we speak does have an impact And I think you're also speaking to a piece that's really important of we're all ignorant.

[00:12:47] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: None of us have had every life experience. We all, even those of us who work in different forms of inclusion work and advocacy, we're constantly learning. there's no there's no arriving [00:13:00] in this world.

[00:13:00] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Exactly. Oh my goodness. We actually say that exact, we, we put up a slide that has a, a picture of a train and we say, we're on this journey. And we ask, has anyone arrived? And nobody has ever said yes. And I think it's really important for us as leaders in those sessions to say, neither have we. And oh, by the way, here's a story I can tell you about where I had a blind spot and what I learned.

[00:13:24] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And so I think that that's a really key,  You asked. The podcast is called Business as Unusual. Yeah. So that's one of the things that, that I really think about as how we, what we're doing a little bit differently is that we are very transparent. We really say we're all on this journey together. And that humility is really, and transparency, or I think is really keys because the field of DEI is getting a little pushback these days.

[00:13:51] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: It is getting kind of tagged as being can be exclusionary. And I think that's, I think that's really the outliers in the [00:14:00] field. Maybe there's some folks you could point to, but I think what we have done over decades is to be very intentional about deeply including everyone in the conversation, making sure that no one thinks that they're excluded or has an experience of exclusion in our session.

[00:14:16] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And, and by also making sure that it's kind of enjoyable. We really do create a very engaging situation where people interact with each other, they tell their own stories. We also, I think, are a little different in that people leave our sessions with practical skills. They have told their stories. We've pulled out what they already know, and we've actually allowed them to learn maybe deepen learning, learn something new perhaps, and then practice. So we, when we do an ACE-ing Conflict learning session, half the session is about is, all right, here's a situation, here's this thing that someone [00:15:00] said, how would we respond?

[00:15:01] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And we go and we practice it and we go back and then we say, now, What do we think? Did we do well? What would we change? And so it is very practical skills-based and very enjoyable. We get, we get a lot of people tell us, Oh, my gosh, I was dreading this session, but this is probably the best session in this field that I've ever had. So, I think that that all comes from our, our laying the foundation of we're in this together. We're on a journey. We're, we're not at the end of it. We're not here to sit in judgment of you, which again is getting to that other place. So I just. I don't know if I said this, but the, the Judgment Or Joy piece is really, I see it as a prequel to ACE-ing Conflict because when we are so we're stuck in our judgment, it's hard to get curious.

[00:15:50] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And so that's why I think that we've got to really go back to an internal look at ourselves. Why are we so judgmental? [00:16:00] And for me, and I think for most of us, it probably comes down to we're most likely judging ourselves and that's that's the profound lesson that I learned from my son, Kory. He had multiple disabilities. He got judged a lot, but he never judged anyone. And I think it's because he didn't, he didn't internalize their judgments of him and he just knew he belonged on this earth. And so from, from watching him and helping him grow and develop, I recognize that, that really the starting place of all of this work is loving ourselves. That's where we have to start.

[00:16:41] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Yeah, that's and part of the whole BiCurean methodology the consulting company that I have is that really, I do believe that if we don't choose to accept the messy contradictions of who we are, we externalize them into other people and that a lot of the pain that people put [00:17:00] out into the world is externalized from their, their internal judgment, suffering, and we have the idea that, or , the narrative fiction that we're cohesive narratives and we're not, we're all very messy, contradictory beings and there's, there's some beauty in that.

[00:17:20] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: There's discovery and the unknown. And then also they, I think that sometimes we, we create unnecessary harm because of that. And you remind me too, I took a course I trained in positive intelligence last year. And one of the things that Shirzad, the founder of that talks about is he realized that he was very judgmental when he was sort of developing his practice and that his judgment showed up in a, in an oddly positive way, like, Oh, I like you, or I think you're smart and I, that really kind of struck me is that I've never really been someone who has a lot of negative judgments about [00:18:00] people, but I do tend to think my opinion matters on the positive side. And I've really tried to figure out like how to both show up in appreciation and gratitude because it's really what I want to be doing and not in this place of saying, saying something that is judgmental, even if it's sort of quote positive, and you're nodding. So maybe you can speak to to your experience of that.

[00:18:24] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yeah. in the book, Judgment or Joy, I talk about the harsh criticisms and judgments that really, I think, do not resonate for us. And that's why we then want to externalize them because no one wants to feel just self-loathing. So we do tend to externalize them out. But there's a difference between harsh judgments and criticisms and discernment. And I'm not at all saying that we don't need to distinguish or discern between what's healthy and what's not healthy. I think it is for me, anyway, I think it [00:19:00] is appropriate for me to, to discern what I want to fill my life with, who I want to be in connection with, and you might simplify that down to I like that. But I think where, where it gets problematic and where we end up not being able to communicate effectively across differences is when we are condemning and really just harshly assigning a lack of value to groups of people, and individual members that we are interacting with from those groups suffer.

This is a life mission for me. It's my passion. But I think that it's really important to bring this into the business world because we spend so much of our time in, in the workplace. And so I think that it's really interesting. There's been some research done that asks who's more productive, someone who's [00:20:00] judgmental or someone who's joyful? And it's intuitive, the joyful people are more productive. There's an Oxford study that, that shows that. And so, so what I think is really important for business is to, to draw the through line to connect the dots between judgment and joy, releasing judgment, making room for joy and how that actually then leads to being a more productive team member in the workplace. What I'm trying to do is show that the relevance to businesses as well as everybody in their lives. But I think it doesn't stop just in our personal life. It's also relevant in business.

[00:20:44] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: I agree. I feel like there's a false separation. I mean, you are a person showing up and I recognize there are ways to be appropriate around sharing your personal experience. And I think that is [00:21:00] a little bit contextual. You know, I worked as a executive director for two LGBTQ nonprofits. So my identity was to a certain extent a part of my work in that talking about how I showed up in my life and how I was impacted by legislation was relevant to the work I was doing, and there was still lines around what I would and wouldn't share because. It wasn't like a personal therapy session when I was talking, it was me making points and bringing in that personal element.

[00:21:34] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: So people had something to connect to. So I get that it's contextual and we are whole beings. We, we aren't, you know, we don't actually leave quote unquote things at the door. They're affecting us. And so rather than pretending that and probably having the denial of it, impact our ability to be a team member to show up, let's honor that and really sit with the whole experience.

[00:21:57] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yeah.

[00:21:58] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: So, [00:22:00]

[00:22:00] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yeah. When I think about being a whole person and we bring these different whole people together, then I just think everything that we're attempting to do rests on our ability to communicate across our differences. And so, when I think about the ideal situation in a business or elsewhere, it's when we're deeply listening to each other and, we're understanding and appreciating our differences, and then that allows us to collaborate across our differences, and then, in that ideal utopia world, everyone's fulfilling their potential, and then we are creating progress for our society, so I think that that's something to strive for, and, and something that I think can seem [00:23:00] idealistic, but I actually think it's very doable. It's reachable.

[00:23:06] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: yeah, I think it's critical. I really appreciate that you're modeling that in these different ways, because it feels like some of the challenges that I see socially, politically are because we don't listen very well. And, I'm not putting that on everyone else. Like, I know I don't always listen. Well, I get activated or jump on a reaction. And it's a group effort, right? It's a group project.

[00:23:31] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: That's where, forgiveness comes in as well, that we aren't, always going to be, to use all the three steps of ACE, just the way they're laid out and we may raise our voices or we may express our hearts and, and, then we say, oops! and please, you know, please let me try again and keep.

[00:23:52] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: you talked about your ideal situation. Can you share a little bit about what success looks like to you?

[00:24:00] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: mean, that's it. I think, I think that when we listen. To each other deeply, then everything flows from that. It doesn't mean that we will never have conflict. It just means we know how to resolve conflict. So when we're listening to each other and we're really getting to know each other and understanding, where we're coming from, then, we see differences as not as something to get past or to squelch, and put to the side, but they are actually valuable assets that we can build upon.

[00:24:31] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And so when we are acknowledging differences, using them as strengths, everyone's going to feel like they want to contribute what they have to contribute, then it's just, to me, it's obvious that organizations, businesses will thrive when their, or when their employees feel a sense of value, feel belonging, they give more, they stick around, they learn their jobs better. They [00:25:00] learn how to interact better with customers, serve customers better. It really all comes from that spring head of listening and appreciating our differences and seeing them as, as valuable.

[00:25:12] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Yeah. I had a woman on recently who said she likes to help create conflict, brave communities. And I thought that was such a great way to frame it.

[00:25:22] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: yeah, because on the other side, you know, flip the coin over, it's really expensive when folks get hung up on their differences. We see that productivity and turnover, quality, reputation, all those things suffer when, you know, when an organization has an issue around a difference, lawsuits, all those things that happen, and so when we are continually focusing on valuing each other. Then success is just a given. I think. I see it I see it in the clients that [00:25:59] I work with on a regular basis.

[00:26:00] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: And more pleasant. Honestly, it's like a better process. I, I've always found the people that I can have that conflict with, that we can work it out and we're not afraid to dive in, those are deeper, better, more functional relationships, whether they're business or personal, it makes a big difference.

[00:26:20] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Yeah. But again, the the reason why so many people struggle with that is because they're not really convinced that they're worthy. They're not really living in a sense of self love. And so they don't they don't respond to conflict well. And so that's why I think, we kind of keep going back to, wow, this seems like a, maybe even a, a spiritual book that I've written, but it's really about laying this, building the scaffolding, laying the foundation for everything else that, that we want to accomplish in business and, in society.

[00:26:57] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Will you share advice you've received that has [00:27:00] influenced the way you approach your work?

[00:27:05] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Well, it may sound like a broken record, but the best advice that I have ever heard is to love yourself. I, I read a [00:27:16] book by Louise Hay years and years ago, and that was really her core message. And that was right around the time that Kory was born. And so then I started seeing this unique human being, the only person I've ever seen who never judged himself and who just always loved himself and loved he, you know, knew that his voice mattered and could express it wherever he was, and, and as a result welcomed everyone else. I've done a lot of looking into folks who are coming out of, you know, Nazi movements and KKK, and I just kind of hear this refrain that their prejudice, their hate, [00:28:00] was really a deeply misguided cry for help. Because they were not in a place of self love. I think self love is so important for me getting up and talking, getting on a stage, getting in front of a group of people, talking about these difficult issues. It's helped me to be able to do that. But it's also just about coming to the workplace in a way that lets me be my best person, lets me do my best job.

[00:28:25] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Yeah. Will you share a little bit about how you keep yourself inspired or how you recharge? I know this kind of work has its moments of challenge, and I think it's helpful for people to understand the different ways that, that can be, worked with.

[00:28:46] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Well, I would have to say my most important inspiration are my two boys. And so I'm inspired by Kory from heaven and by Kaden right here on earth. And just [00:29:00] watching him grow into a young man, someone who's honest and he was touched by Kory as well. So I think I'm watching him grow into this person who's honest and courageous and confident. So, both of my, my children inspire me. I'm also really inspired by people, people who've passed on, but also people today who are doing the hard work, standing up and advocating for justice. And so reading about all the challenges that people have faced. I look in that, People have, some people have told me, I'm, you know, that I'm brave for the work I do, but then I look at what other people are going through.

[00:29:44] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: And I just think, we all have to do our part, but I am really inspired by Fannie Lou Hamer and Malala and just various folks who have just really dealt with major, [00:30:00] major challenges and continue to advance justice. And then in terms of recharging and doing, I have to take a walk every day. It's raining here today, so I've got to figure out my timeframe of when I'm going to go take my walk with my dog. And do some breathing and some guided meditation pretty much every day. I've got to do those things to just balance out the, the deep, deep work that I do.

[00:30:30] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: you can't pour from an empty cup. And that's so important. I, so folks that are listening and they want to learn more, follow you, get in touch by the book. What's the best way for them to connect?

[00:30:43] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: Well, I'm on most social media as WordSmooth, W O R D S M O O T H. And you can get to everything from wordsmooth.com as well. [00:31:00] And I do, you know, one of the interesting things I think is kind of maybe a little bit unexpected. I've been recording guided meditations. So I have a guided meditation for ACE-ing Conflict.

[00:31:12] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: I have a guided meditation for Judgment or Joy. And then just other meditations that I think I need. So I've put them out there cause maybe someone else can use them as well. And then the books are available on Amazon. So everything, you can get to everything through wordsmooth.com.

[00:31:31] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: All the social media and all the other websites are linked there.

[00:31:35] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: Thank you so much. Is there anything you want to add as a final thought or

[00:31:39] patty-bates-ballard--she-her-_1_04-26-2024_113715: You know, I just encourage everyone to take a breath and listen, listen a little more and ask a question. When you feel like you might want to give an opinion, ask a question first and see what happens.

[00:31:50] bau--she-they-_1_04-26-2024_103715: That's great. Thank you. And thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you everyone for listening. ​