Unleashing the Cast Magic: Redefining Podcast Success with Greg Wasserman 🎙✨

Business as UNusual Ep 15 - Season 3 Transcript

Aicila [00:00:00]:

Alright. Welcome to Business as Unusual. I'm here today with Greg Wasserman. And Greg is a cast magician. So if you're all curious about how to be a cast magician, I think that will come out during our chat. Welcome to the show, Greg.

Greg Wasserman [00:00:15]:

Hi. It's a pleasure always to be here and always talking with you. I look forward to sharing this conversation with the audience.

Aicila [00:00:21]:

Me too. So I met Greg through, podcast software that I use called Cast Magic, and they are a very unusual business. They have a strong community that I feel sort of rose up. When I I think when I joined Cast Magic's community, it was only a few 100 people, and now it's, like, at 1300 in the Slack community.

Greg Wasserman [00:00:43]:

Yeah.

Aicila [00:00:45]:

And it's very it's very interesting. It's a place I really appreciate because there's so much interaction. And part of how I got to know Greg is he's a very interactive person in community. Like he reached out, he said, hello. And some people don't interact a lot. I'm kind of, not totally a lurker, but a little bit. But I still feel very welcome there. And one of the things that I appreciate so it's not your company per se, but they brought you on to do this piece.

Aicila [00:01:13]:

And can you talk a little bit about how that showed up and why you were interested in that in the first place?

Greg Wasserman [00:01:19]:

So I guess to answer that, we go back to the backstory of Greg in that regards. I live on LinkedIn. My background is in media, and I've done partnerships for the last few years. But in the last 4 years, I ran a 3 podcast listening platforms, and that really dove me deep into the podcasting space. When you're running a podcast listening platform, your job is truly to help podcasters answer the 3 questions that they all have. How do I get more distribution? How do I grow my audience? How do I make money? How do I monetize? And I'm like, well, imagine if Instagram called you and said, look, you have a show. It's on our platform. How do I help you grow? Whether you take my advice or you don't, I got 4,000,000 other shows that will take it and they will grow and you won't, you'll grow other ways.

Greg Wasserman [00:02:03]:

Totally up to you. And so part of that, seeing those three questions always come up, I didn't understand why podcasters are so focused on just downloads. When a podcast gives you all this great content, I will never listen to all of it and I work in podcasting, but I could follow you on your social promotions. I can read your blog, go to your website, get engagement there, listen read your newsletter. I could still have all these touch points with you without actually having to listen to your show and still engage with brand you. And so when I left there, I was trying to figure out how to do that consulting wise because there's so much of an opportunity. Every Monday, I post 3 podcasts I think people should listen to on my LinkedIn. Happened to have done the founders of Cast Magic's original show, the reason they built Cast Magic DTC pod.

Greg Wasserman [00:02:57]:

And then 2 months later, they hadn't even built the product. Few months later, they hit me up. They're like, hey. You seem to know a lot about podcasting. Can we talk to you? We built this product. And I'm like, yes. This is what I've been preaching for everyone to be doing. So it's just a natural alignment, but it actually goes to show the value of what my ethos is.

Greg Wasserman [00:03:16]:

Life is about time and relationships. You have no clue where a conversation today will lead in the future. No clue where that post in December was gonna lead me to a job opportunity in February that I can now say I love what I do.

Aicila [00:03:29]:

It's really obvious as someone who has benefited from the way that you engage. You definitely show up in a way that doesn't feel like you're checking a box for sure, which I appreciate as a person who uses cast magic. And one of the things that you said once that I really appreciated as a podcaster was a lot of podcasters really focus on Apple and Spotify instead of all of these other platforms. Would you be willing to talk about that a little bit? I think it's useful information for folks.

Greg Wasserman [00:04:00]:

100%. I mean, that's exactly what I was talking to. You guys, if you look at the top 5 platforms, so take what? Apple, Amazon, Spotify, Iheart, and I'm blanking on Sirius's platform. It's about 70% of the overall market. That means you're missing about 30% of the market. And as every podcaster wants, they want more listens. So why would you just focus on 70% when it's free to distribute your show to the other 30%. You just have to do a little manual work or your hosting They want to distribute to all these platforms.

Greg Wasserman [00:04:46]:

There we go. So, it's a little manual work, but it's free to reach all these audiences. And the key part about it, you can be a big fish or sorry, a small fish in a big pond. So try to be in an apple because they're so big. Try and reach your numbers there and get chartered and so forth. Or it can be on a smaller one like my company. We were a Player FM with 2,000,000 monthly active users. Small in that scale, but that means those 2,000,000 people were dedicated to that platform.

Greg Wasserman [00:05:16]:

They were interested in podcasting and the way that we were able to give it to them from the certain controls that the company had built. Well, wouldn't I wanna be the charted on that platform and be like, I've got the most users because they're interested in a specific use case beyond just what Apple gives them. And then we had people all the time say, like, we chart as a top, I don't know, embroidery ish podcast, maybe that's their category on Listen Notes or Play FM or whatever it is. Like, no one cares about the charts. Like, oh, you're an Apple. Most people actually, when you think about it, we all know it's it's it's if you're on the top in the Apple charts, the top of the Spotify charts, does that mean you're the best show? Does that mean the best? No. Like, you just got some marketing behind it. You've put some effort behind it.

Greg Wasserman [00:06:04]:

But if you're the best in a smaller platform, that's probably where people are like, oh, maybe those are people like me because it's a unique different kind of environment. So there's so many different ways you can think about it. At the end of the day, it's free to get you in all these platforms.

Aicila [00:06:19]:

Mhmm. So I know I mean, I love podcasts for honestly reasons that I couldn't explain. It's the same reason I love Minions. I just don't it's just something I love. However, I also know they are a huge market area and a new opportunity for people to reach new audiences. As someone who's worked in podcasting in a variety of sectors, what do you think podcasting offers that is uniquely beneficial to the small business owner?

Greg Wasserman [00:06:46]:

Where do I start? Specifically for the small business, but I think I would take this to anyone, anywhere. It allows you to have an authentic conversation that you're probably gonna have anyways, record that, and then use that conversation as your entire content engine. So I can now take this as a conversation as a point, record this. You can chop this up. We can extract what both of us said. We can turn that into a blog, to newsletter. You're able to reach out to in person. Imagine you wanted to just go, hey, I would love to talk to you.

Greg Wasserman [00:07:22]:

And the person's like, I don't have time for this. Hey, I would love to talk to you. And what do you know? I'm gonna record this and I've got a podcast. Most people aren't gonna say, well, how big is your reach? Because they're already assuming, like, alright. If you have a podcast, that means you're at least giving me a platform. That's at least 10 other people maybe that are gonna hear my conversation and gonna hear me. Like, most people don't unless they're on the higher echelon. So now you're able to have a conversation and get content from it that could support you and your thought leadership.

Greg Wasserman [00:07:51]:

You can monetize that and also supports the guest in some regards depending on how you look at it. So, like, you can there's 20 plus ways to monetize a podcast well beyond just downloads. And so from a small business standpoint, you now can think about who's going to be a guest in your show. Will they be a potential client? So you can now start using your show for getting prospecting and leveraging that to get new clients. You can build your brand. You can start being a thought leader. You can build your audience from social blog newsletter, building out your SEO on your website. Like, there's so many reasons to have it.

Greg Wasserman [00:08:28]:

That's why I would say just set it up, spend the time. As you know, as a entrepreneur, like, there's time involved, but the the benefit of it is worth it, especially if you play the long game. You're gonna go, I need to make money in year 1. Why am I not making money after a couple episodes? It's also why most people stop. So think about less about the money you're making from direct sponsorship or ads and thinking that way, but go, how can I make business money through a podcast?

Aicila [00:09:02]:

Who, who do you feel like does the best with Cast Magic? Like the do you think it is podcasters? I know you have a lot of use cases now. Well, Cast Magic started for podcasts in, what, the 6 months that I've been using it. I feel like it went from podcasts to sort of everything. Is there an industry or is it more of an attitude that you think is the most effective?

Greg Wasserman [00:09:24]:

Well, I guess to answer that, let's go let's let's let's bring everyone in. What is Cast Magic? Cast Magic is a platform that allows you to take any audio and video and repurpose it. And the way I like to think about repurposing, it's not just a matter of taking your podcast and create it as a social promotion and blog and newsletter, but also how do I take this dense conversation, this dense media file and extract knowledge from it and repurpose it that way? So it started off because the founders had a podcast or like, as you know, takes a lot of work to think of titles, show notes, timestamps. Mhmm. They build a platform, Cast Magic, that does all of that in minutes. And then you can start asking anything else you would want to extract from it. Well, if their use case was they have a podcast, but they're like everyone else. They also have a business.

Greg Wasserman [00:10:13]:

They were doing all these other things. They're running meetings. They have thoughts that they want to extract from. There's other pieces of content that they get for inspiration. So pretty quickly, we saw that while it's built for podcasts, there's others starting setting up spaces for different use cases. So there's one that some someone set up. He was running a call center for a auto dealership, sales and and customer support. And so he set up a space to basically take his recordings from his sales team and his support team.

Greg Wasserman [00:10:45]:

And instead of going through and listening to the half hour conversation and rubric rubric, he just set up a space going, like, alright. This is now gonna pull all the answers that I would have to do, save me the time. So now you've got a sales standpoint. Meetings, I don't know about you, but sometimes I say something smart and I'm like, I wish someone wrote that down. And then I'll ask, like, who wrote that down? That was good. And I know the person I'm talking to heard me, but it always happens. Like, I can't regurgitate exactly what you just said and then I can't remember what I said. So you can record that.

Greg Wasserman [00:11:15]:

So we've got an entire meeting space to think about. Let's just record it and we'll figure out what we do afterwards. Coaches are a great use case. You're like, alright, let's record this coaching call and then give my client going, hey. Here's a worksheet. Here's content that comes out of it for you to walk away with. So there's so many different use cases. We're seeing the sky's the limit in terms of just who wants to extract insights or content to repurpose from those audio video.

Aicila [00:11:42]:

I feel like all of that is really spot on. And I find that I I like tools like this because I'm not at a point where I'm ready to hire someone that I I don't feel like I have things set up in a way that I would be able to consistently guarantee them what I would want. Right? And so being able to say I can preserve my time by using a tool like this as I continue to build that infrastructure and those possibilities to get to that point. And, also, when I hire someone, I could hire someone who's doing, I think, higher level stuff. Because, well, this is a useful and important task. It is something that can be automated with some attention. And it's just like you were talking about a podcast. Like, everything requires some input, some attention, some setup.

Aicila [00:12:29]:

There's no, what do you call it, magic fairy dust, I guess, who just makes all the the work happen, but but it is a little bit magic. It's cast magic even.

Greg Wasserman [00:12:38]:

Well, there we go. I mean but yeah. Is this is back to your point about solopreneurs and and small businesses. Like, there's not enough hours in the day. And so everyone's struggling to figure out how do I get everything I need to do done. So everyone's working harder instead of smarter. And so then you use technology

Aicila [00:12:52]:

like a tool, like Cast

Greg Wasserman [00:12:52]:

Magic to instead of smarter. And so then you use technology like a tool, like Cast Magic to make your life easier, save you time, put out the content that you never would have been thinking about doing because you're like, I don't have the time to do this. And that ultimately plays the volume game. The more content you're putting out there, the more people can see you, which means you're getting recognition, which means you're building a brand voice, which means you're ultimately making more money because people now know you.

Aicila [00:13:18]:

I wanna point out something I've appreciated about the way that you show up as the representative of Cast Magic is something you spoke earlier about, that life is it's about time and relationships. And it's interesting because I feel like there's a lot of AI conversation that's afraid of this kind of automation. And then we talked about it in a workshop we did where I said, you know, I really see it like a calculator. Yes. I can sit down and do the long math and I know how, or at least I did at some point, but mostly I use a calculator these days or, you know, my computer or whatever. And similarly, I used to do this and listen to the podcast and pull the quotes. And I still have to, like I said, do a little bit, but there's that. It pulls it out.

Aicila [00:14:05]:

And I think that helping people to see that it's actually the opposite of the fear. It's not about getting rid of people. It's about giving people more opportunity to connect authentically with one another because they don't have to spend as much time in busy work that they can offload onto a program like this.

Greg Wasserman [00:14:26]:

A 100% agree. I mean, if you can if you can focus more on strategy and execution and less on the busy work, I think that's what most people would want. That's also the challenge because some people are like, no. I'm good at the busy work in this now AI and technology usually take away some of the busy work, or it transitions where that busy work is. Like, alright. I can set up Cast Magic and have it pull everything, but I still need to have someone go in there, make sure, clean it up. It's AI, so they're still not gonna be a 100% what you need. You're still gonna put your spin on things.

Greg Wasserman [00:15:08]:

But if I could go ahead and create 20 pieces of content, just as an example, and then edit those instead of sorry. Instead of creating 20 pieces of content, I just edit 20 pieces of content. That would make my life, especially me, a lot easier. I'm like, alright. I couldn't imagine writing all these pieces of content. You know what? Let's have technology do that for me. My words, my thoughts, organized. Now I just have to edit it so it sounds even more like I want it to sound before I hit publish.

Aicila [00:15:38]:

Mhmm. Right. And so that I feel like that humanizing aspect is something that gets left out in the AI conversation and also the reality that, like you said, there's still gonna be some busy work. There's still gonna be and I I don't like saying it in a way that makes it sound like it's not important, but there's still some of that stuff that is less of that creativity and strategy piece that I feel like a lot of those solopreneurs are really more excited about. And it gives them space to focus there, but they still need someone to double check the facts and make sure it sounds right, whether it's them or an admin. So your point is, I think, really well taken. And I, you know, like I said, I love Cast Magic. I feel like I, I actually, I told Greg at one point, I was like, I made a really good friend in the cast magic community.

Aicila [00:16:24]:

It was just like it's that kind of like the Slack community is really that open and sharing. And I I actually find the podcast community in general is very supportive, which I've always appreciated.

Greg Wasserman [00:16:34]:

And I mean, that's what brought me to it. Like, I actually, that's what kept me in it. So when I left my last job, I'm like, everyone's like, why don't you go back and sell podcast ads? Like, my media days are over. I wanna stay in podcasting, but I don't wanna go ahead and sell ads. So how do I stay within it? Because the community is incredible. I mean, it truly is podcast community is what everyone's known. It's a very vulnerable space. So for me, that's why I also try and create that with the Cast Magic Slack community.

Greg Wasserman [00:17:06]:

It's like, how do I introduce people? So if I think about like the small business person, you don't have enough time, you need help, but not like a full time person. Well, great. We got 1300 people that are using this tool in there. I have to imagine there's some overlap. So could we find a person that helps 3 of us use one tool and manages it? Like, now we're, once again, we're bridging the gap of you're not alone, you're with other people, and you can make friends to go, like, I trust you and I trust this person. I'm gonna I know how to run my company. Like, those are all the things you should be thinking about and leaning into that kind of discomfort of, like, technology, but also community.

Aicila [00:17:47]:

Yeah. I love that. So how do you define success for you as Greg Wasserman and or for Cast Magic? I kinda want both if I'm being honest, and I'll I'll accept either one.

Greg Wasserman [00:17:59]:

It's funny you asked that. If you asked me that 20 plus years ago, my thought of answering was I am, in a sense, better than my parents. You know? If they worked so hard to give me the life they gave me, their 4 successes, I've gone above them. I've made more money. I've made more financial gains, like whatever it was. And so that was how I viewed it, which makes it a lot of, which basically broke me because you're like, all right, you're putting a view, especially since we know my generation is not going to be as good as the boomers. Like there's just a, there's just a disconnect there. So the way I look at it now, I haven't fully defined it.

Greg Wasserman [00:18:43]:

I think it's more around joy. Like what makes me happy. It's not so much the financial success. If I know I'm doing a good job, everything else will will align. So if I'm doing the job that I like, that brings me joy, which this truly does, like I wake up every day excited to help small businesses understand how to repurpose content, give them ideas to promote Cast Magic standpoint, define success. I mean, just keep growing. I think Blayne just posted something about what we've done in the 1st year today, which is incredible. And he's our co founder.

Greg Wasserman [00:19:16]:

So to continue to grow the community, to continue to grow the product, as we know we are product led, but we're community led. You guys are ultimately dictating what's happening to stay in forefront of where technology is going so that, you know, someone else doesn't come along and say like, oh, we are the next cast magic and they don't need us. So it's, it's continuing to find those pieces. But for me, yeah, it's, it's successes, being aligned. And I think I'm truly aligned right now, which is great.

Aicila [00:19:47]:

That is a great definition. I love it. I had to go look it up. I I've been with Cast Magic since May of last year.

Greg Wasserman [00:19:55]:

Coming up in a year. There you go.

Aicila [00:19:57]:

So do you have any advice that you feel has influenced the way you approach your work that you would love to share with people?

Greg Wasserman [00:20:04]:

Life is about time and relationships. You have no clue where one conversation today will lead you in the future. If you truly believe that you will make the time, not because it serves you now, but because you don't know where it serves you and you truly believe connection is there. And the way I look at that is, take you for an example. I had a conversation with another magician who's in the hemp industry and you happen to tell me you had a client in that industry and I'm like, oh great. Well, here's 2 people I can connect. And just by being open to those conversations, being open to the connections, you bring people together. Like, how could you not ask for anything better? Since my role and and my roles in the last few years have been in partnerships, partnership mentality is there's a there, there, let's explore it.

Greg Wasserman [00:20:52]:

I don't know if we've got something now or if I can introduce you to someone, but it's a give to get mentality. So if I keep giving and go like, talk to me. What are you trying to solve? What are you trying to do? Whether I can serve you or not, maybe I know someone that can. And that way I'm able to give you value. So if your business is your CPA, well, how could you ultimately need new clients for your CPA business? But who could you connect with over the conversation you're having, whether they hire you or not, could you go like, well, I'm not a good fit for you or I get it. You're not gonna hire me, but I think you based on what you're doing or your business, I know someone that creates trust. That creates connection. That creates human engagement.

Greg Wasserman [00:21:37]:

Like, why wouldn't you want that from a standpoint? Like, that will then come back to you in a very positive way, I believe, at least.

Aicila [00:21:45]:

Well, I feel like what I'm hearing from you and what I've observed in the cast magic community is this it's very much I like to call it prosocial as opposed to antisocial, and and it's community oriented. It's about recognizing that while we're needing to watch out for ourselves, that's part of it, watching out for ourselves is also watching out for our community. Like, we wanna make sure it's not enough that someone I knew a long time ago rewrote this business saying, it's not enough that I succeed. Others must also succeed. And it it really does feel like a good balance, I guess, to be in, to recognize that that we are kind of all in this together. Like, life is a team sport. Right?

Greg Wasserman [00:22:24]:

I mean, what is it? Right? I would say rising tide raise all ships. Cause my dad was a Navy guy. So like, yeah, if I can rise your boat and my boat comes like, why is it, it's not a sum all that there's enough of the pie for all of us to to get a piece.

Aicila [00:22:41]:

Yeah. And we can always make more Yeah. Together. Right? If we're in it, and it's like a stone soup thing. So what do you do to stay recharged and inspired days when you're like, I don't even know if I could do anything?

Greg Wasserman [00:22:53]:

Part of it is is understanding where you're at. So good example is on those days where like, I'm not there. I'm not going to go send emails to people because they know it's, it's going to come, it's not going to come off authentic. It's going to come forced. It's not putting my best foot forward. So why am I going to go ahead and do that? Some people I know are like just pushed through it and I'm like, but they can feel it. Like someone can feel, I believe, can feel your inauthentic energy or your your blah energy if you want. So there's always enough things to do in a day that you can go like, alright, where can I channel my energy if my energy right now isn't here? Maybe it's a spreadsheet.

Greg Wasserman [00:23:32]:

It's like, I don't have to talk to anyone and I'm just gonna power through a spreadsheet because that's what I have to do. Like, doesn't matter what your role is. There's always something you can figure out where it's like, can I block this? But it's also a feelings thing, right? So maybe in the morning, I'm not there, but maybe by the afternoon, I am, I've recharged. I don't drink coffee, but maybe you have your cup of coffee, you have lunch, you put some food in your stomach, who knows? You're like, all right, I can do that now. So just because you're not feeling it at that moment, doesn't mean you won't feel it later on that day. So for me, that's kind of the way I treat it. It's like, all right, what could I do now? From a call standpoint, maybe I'm not in the mood for a call, which isn't possible because I'm always in the mood to talk. I know, but recharging, I mean, like fitness is a big thing for me.

Greg Wasserman [00:24:16]:

I've started learning the art of napping, which is an interesting one. My mother still finds it really odd because I've never been a napper, but you start realizing instead of just pushing through that wall or drinking your cup of coffee, like listen to your body and understand like maybe it's just lay down for 20 minutes. Part of it is also then breathing. So maybe it's just a meditation because I'm so amped. I'm a very high energy person. So sometimes it's like, I would just ground myself and breathe. And then by doing that, you'll find you'll get clarity, go for a walk. Like they always talk about walking as a great form.

Greg Wasserman [00:24:50]:

So, like, sometimes just getting out from what you have to do helps you bring that clarity. Those are some of the things that I do that always help me, as opposed to I've got too much, too much, too much, too much. It's like, yes, you will always have too much to do. But if you take time, you realize maybe you'll be able to organize your thoughts better. Maybe able to power through what you were originally overwhelmed doing because you've got new clarity on it. If you're always looking at the same thing, it's gonna be hard for you to move past it.

Aicila [00:25:23]:

Now often we undervalue the I call it back brain work that happens when you're, you know, if you're really pushing on a project or a problem or, you know, overlooking for a solution and you just can't get anywhere. Just I feel like if I walk away and I let my back brain do its thing, it's got, I don't know, magical fairies and hamsters in there or something, then I come back and the answer's right there. And and it and it probably took me less time than if I sat there kind of trying to force it forward. But it can feel sometimes it feels like giving up, like, no, I'm gonna win, which, you know, is not a great attitude. Right? And sometimes I feel that pressure of, oh, I have to have a timeline and you just have to let that go and recognize that time takes time. Like you can't make it happen a specific way. And and and also accept what shows up. Sometimes the solution isn't what you thought.

Aicila [00:26:15]:

So I like that. Yeah. The back brain, pause, and all the other things too. I think sleep people are understanding how important it is that you go go close your eyes and no. We don't really understand what it does, except that it is good for us, which I think is also kind of interesting. We spend a third of our life doing it. We still don't really understand much about it.

Greg Wasserman [00:26:35]:

No. But we're willing to spend $50,000 in a car, but not, $2,000 on a mattress.

Aicila [00:26:42]:

Right? Humans, we're so interesting.

Greg Wasserman [00:26:46]:

What what gets me from point a to point b and looking good versus what is actually gonna be good for my actual health?

Aicila [00:26:54]:

Mhmm. I don't know. For folks that are listening and they're just like, well, I wanna be a cast magician or I wanna know more. What do they do to learn more, follow you, get in touch?

Greg Wasserman [00:27:08]:

To to learn more, I mean, clearly, go go talk to you in terms of, you know, drop your affiliate link in there. Me, I live on LinkedIn. That's where I live. That's where I post. As you know, I live in our Slack community as well. Also a member of 40 other Slack communities, but I run ours. But, yeah. I mean, I run our onboarding.

Greg Wasserman [00:27:27]:

Yeah. I know. It's a lot. I run our onboarding. So as soon as you sign up, you wanna learn how to do everything, I'll walk you through that. We do weekly workshops. We'll teach you, once again, it's all community driven. And then I help podcasters and I consult with podcasters because at the end of the day, how do I help you change your mindset? And that's my whole point.

Greg Wasserman [00:27:48]:

My monetization mindset shifting. Instead of just downloads, how do we actually think about you as a brand? That's kinda what I love jazz about.

Aicila [00:27:57]:

Love it. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time today, and thanks everybody for listening.

Greg Wasserman [00:28:02]:

Pleasure.