Behind the Mic with Katie Bowman

Business as UNusual Ep 13 - Season 3 Transcript

Aicila [00:00:00]:

Hi. Alright. Welcome to Business is Unusual. I am really excited today to be with artist and comedian, Katie Bowman. Welcome to the show, Katie.

Katie [00:00:08]:

Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Aicila [00:00:11]:

I think this is gonna be a great conversation. Katie and I have already managed to talk about several things. Sorry, guys. That was for us. But this is for you. I I first saw Katie live, I wanna say, 6 years ago, 5 years ago. Oh, wow. It's been a little bit.

Aicila [00:00:30]:

And over the years, I've enjoyed following her on Instagram and recently have just really loved the variety of things she's been posting and was lucky enough that she agreed to come here and talk about being a comedian, especially in an environment where a lot of people are like, oh, you can't say funny things. She's kind of addressed that a little bit. So I thought it'd be kinda fun to have her on and talk about her experiences as a stand up, the art of it, and and maybe address some of those red herrings.

Katie [00:01:00]:

Yeah. I'm super excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. It's it is crazy doing comedy right now because I feel like 2019 was like a really good year for comedy and it felt like everything was about to take off. Mhmm. For a lot of people, not just me. But I was definitely feeling really good. That was the year that I kinda started to headline shows or getting the opportunity to headline local shows and stuff and getting like longer sets.

Katie [00:01:39]:

And I had a couple comedy festivals that were coming up and then when 2020 hit, everything just shut down. And it's interesting. I think when that happened, I, you know, I don't know. I think the isolation kind of messed everybody up a little bit. And some people, it really helps them and that's awesome. And some people, there are people that started comedy in the year 2020. And some of those people started online and some of those people were already out despite Mhmm. All the government issues of trying to keep people, inside and stuff.

Katie [00:02:27]:

And at the time, I think we were all so polarized by it. I I I know some people would still be like, it's still pretty terrible. And I'm like, yes, I know. But a lot of time it's there's a lot of those people that were out were like young, younger comics. And when you're that young, you just don't realize, like, how much of an asshole you are. Like, I mean, I grew up in Texas, and I remember littering when I was in high school. Like, just well, there is a lot of body shame in my family, and so I didn't want my mom to see that I was eating fast food. And so and same with my friends.

Katie [00:03:08]:

We would throw our food out the window when we were done with it, and I think about that all the time. And I'm like, oh, my god. Like, I can't believe that was me at some point. But I was a dumb kid.

Aicila [00:03:19]:

Right.

Katie [00:03:19]:

And and do you think about I mean, a lot of the stuff that you see that's happening in on k through 12 and college campuses, you have to remember all those people's brains are still developing, you know, and you're very self centered until you get to a certain age. And some people stay self centered. I was like, what

Aicila [00:03:44]:

age exactly should I be waiting for some of these people for?

Katie [00:03:48]:

But that's when I think once you start to get out of your parents' house, if you do, if you have that option or get out of the world, that's when you start to see how other people live their lives. And It's weird because I know so many people who never left my hometown and you can tell. Yeah. And I I mean, a lot of them are Trumpers now and they're crazy and I'm like, maybe, like, mom and dad don't always know what's best. Right? Like, when you're having an argument with somebody and they're like, my dad says I'm like, well, what do you say? We're in our thirties. You're still quoting your parents?

Aicila [00:04:31]:

Mhmm.

Katie [00:04:32]:

What what how do you think for yourself? And so I think we're lucky if you have those options. If not, sometimes it really feeds into that kind of closed minded way of thinking or, you know, anyone who has a lot of privilege, you know, you get into a very like, you look at these actors who are, like, denying nepotism. Like, and they're like, oh, I think calling my son an epo baby is insulting. And, yeah, it probably doesn't feel good. It's kinda like saying, I mean, on very different plane. It's like how people feel when this well, well, I'm a white person, so like, I'm racist. Like, we're all racist because we came from racist roots. And then there's always, like, another white person who's, no, I'm not.

Katie [00:05:18]:

And it's you can't move past this until you acknowledge our history. And and so I really went off there with so many details. I'm so sorry.

Aicila [00:05:33]:

No. I love it.

Katie [00:05:34]:

For editing. That's the problem

Aicila [00:05:36]:

I wanted you on is I feel like you just approach all of this in such a thoughtful way, and I personally think we just need more thoughtfulness. So I appreciate it.

Katie [00:05:44]:

Thank you. I couldn't agree more with that. Thank you. That's very empowering. 3 hours later. No. I'm just

Aicila [00:05:51]:

You know what? I'm here for it. This this will be my next 4 podcast episodes, Alexis. We'll continue. Copy. Katie's thoughts

Katie [00:06:04]:

on yeah. Katie's thoughts on a whole episode of the dog interactions. But, but yeah. So, like, during comedy, there is a lot of interesting ways that people were exhibiting their behaviors. There were the people that were like, oh my god. I don't wanna hurt anyone. I'm just not gonna leave my house at all.

Aicila [00:06:28]:

Right. And

Katie [00:06:29]:

I mean, for remote workers, that's awesome. But I was working at Planned Parenthood

Aicila [00:06:36]:

Right.

Katie [00:06:36]:

40 hours a week during that and getting everyone face to face for a while. There was a point where they were like, if we have masks, we have to give them to the hospitals. I'm like, but you can't go home even though we're in a pandemic. And I was like, it was jarring. Working nonprofits, they just work into the ground. But, like, you get a little jaded when you see all these people online, like, being like, how dare you do anything out there? Well, I'm literally risking my life every day at work. So I need some solace. Sorry.

Katie [00:07:11]:

Me and my coworkers went to a park and hung out for a moment after a 10 hour shift of just seeing people in health care. And there's that animosity. Then there were the people that just do not care. They refuse to wear a mask. It's like a pain in the ass trying to get people to wear masks just in the clinic.

Aicila [00:07:33]:

Yeah.

Katie [00:07:35]:

Yep. And now it's, you know, get up, I'll rape you. Like that kind of there's like interesting people trying to start roast jokes like that even. Or

Aicila [00:07:47]:

I mean, I feel like

Katie [00:07:48]:

just a I

Aicila [00:07:49]:

just say, like, the I feel like the roast that I enjoy when they're made on me, because my kids love

Katie [00:07:54]:

to do this.

Aicila [00:07:55]:

It it's it's when something that I don't love that's true gets brought up in a clever way that I can't ignore, and I have to appreciate it, even if it does make me a little uncomfortable, it's not oh, that's

Katie [00:08:10]:

accurate. Yeah.

Aicila [00:08:10]:

Or I feel scared or I feel grossed out. It's the it's the uncomfortable of, oh, that's accurate.

Katie [00:08:18]:

Yeah. What

Aicila [00:08:20]:

were you thinking about saying that? Is.

Katie [00:08:23]:

Like, you got me. Yeah. You got me. Like, that's what you want. You wanna feel like Same. It also I mean, roaster also a way to butter people up if you do it right. You know? Like, you are showing things about themselves that they're not realizing are there. And it's oh, you've been paying attention to me or you notice something about me.

Katie [00:08:46]:

I that's so true and I never noticed it myself. And I just feel like all this weird mean. It's not even like actual jokes. I mean, I'm all for alternative comedy. Like, where there's not just a classic, like, set up and punch line. And so, like, a good example of that would be, like, for me is a lot of people say I look like my dad. I feel bad for him because it must suck looking like a lady, you know, with a twist and then a silly thing. Where, like, alternative unique acts sometimes are using more bits or they'll do use like storytelling and there's all these different things, but there's also just people punching down.

Katie [00:09:39]:

So, like, comics are kind of at the bottom of the entertainment industry when it comes to respect, unless you're an a list comic. But even then, they get the most fit sometimes. And now, I think the entertainment industry just is not leaning into complete talent. They're looking at views, like who has a lot of followers and stuff. And sometimes that's the algorithm is not kind. And it once it doesn't always want what's like a good writer, but that's how you know, it's weird. Stand up used to just be like if you're a good writer and if you're actually funny, that's all you need. Now there's style and hot sexy com like people becoming comedians that don't have to do much.

Katie [00:10:29]:

And I'm like sometimes I'm like, you don't think he's you don't think that person's funny. You just think they're hot. You're just Barney. Like, you were out to lunch with your mom and Brad Pitt walked in the room, and your mom would be like, oh my god. I love that movie. Well, either just start talking crazy. It's that giddiness and I there's like a blend of that too right now. And Mhmm.

Katie [00:10:54]:

I was listening to Marcel Arguello's podcast too. Another thing she said, she was like, Cody, I'm a comic. He was like wishing that specials were special. And he's People aren't wanting to put the time into writing anymore, and they wanna just have something quick and out there. And some of the best specials that you've ever seen or best albums you've ever heard, when you look at it, you're actually seeing that they actually that's 10 years of jokes. That's why it's so good. They worked on that material for 10 years versus, like, putting on an hour every year. Can you can see it's gonna be with music.

Katie [00:11:34]:

Some of your favorite musicians won't put an album out until they're fully ready to put an album out. Yeah. And everyone works. There's always outliers and everything, but to me, the punching down, I'm like, we're at the bottom of the bucket. So if you're a comedian punching down on someone, you have to also remember that half the people in the audience are looking at you like, oh, that's so sad that they're up there wanting attention. Mhmm. Like, when I go on stage, I want the audience to feel like we're all friends. I wanna feel like I'm hanging out with people riffing at a party, and we're having a good time.

Katie [00:12:12]:

I don't want people to feel excluded. Or if anyone in the audience is offended by something I'd say, like, I would wanna know so that I could rewrite it. Because sometimes you don't know, but there's that shock value. It's like quick. It's not it's offensive. And I mean, look at Matt Raiff. He had some weird crowd work bit that made him go super famous. He had plastic surgery.

Katie [00:12:39]:

No, he didn't. We don't know. But I mean, look at the before and after pictures. It's like it's like it'd be one thing if he just owned it. Oh, I had plastic surgery. You could write so many jokes about that, like, just having plastic surgery jokes, like, no one ever talks about getting their face done. RD Lang. He had that Coke problem, and then he fucked up his nose, and now it's flat.

Katie [00:13:04]:

Like, I was like, it's literally if you look at him, his profile, his nose is completely flat. And he talks about it on stage, and he talks about how people recommend it's a great reminder every morning for me to not do cocaine again. And it's really funny, and it's like real. But so then Matt Raif gets super famous because all these women love him and it's that same thing. I think you guys are just horny for for him. You're not actually thinking he's funny. You're just it's so weird. It's it's just like watching David Attenborough talk about birds.

Katie [00:13:43]:

The birds are jumping around the female birds and everyone like, the other birds getting excited because this bird is so crazy looking. And then you're, like, actually, it's oh, but he's just trying to get laid. That's all it is. It's not there it's not actual entertainment. What are we doing? But so then he made all those domestic violence jokes that also, the thing about those jokes is that they've been done in the eighties. They're nothing new and they're nothing creative, but he did all that. Lost a lot of his following. And now he's still, like, famous.

Katie [00:14:16]:

He's still putting out stuff and it's to me, it's god. Do you know how many people in every state? There's so many funny comedians all around the country that could use those specials to do to actually make you laugh and hold it to a higher standard of what comedy is. Same thing with Chappelle. I feel like because of who he was, people don't want to be like, okay, this is hate speech against trans people. And it's like

Aicila [00:14:49]:

Yep.

Katie [00:14:50]:

How many specials are we into it now? It's also like a a part of okay. You can't tell me that every time you watch it, you're like, oh, that's so original because it's like the same thing every time. And then knowing that he's making millions off it. I remember 2 or 3, I think I watched 3 specials ago and he was like, some lady was like, who do you think you are, Dave Chappelle? My daughter's trans. It broke my heart hearing that story because you're like, oh, that poor parent is just trying to stick up for their trans kid. Yeah. He's making a whole joke about them. And and then he's, who am I? I'm the guy who walked away from $50,000,000, and it's Yeah.

Katie [00:15:34]:

But now you're making twice that now off every one of these specials. Like, you're not that guy anymore. You clearly are all obsessed with money. Same thing with the art school in Chicago that they were trying to put low income housing next to, and he said he would take all his funding away. Who are you now, Dave Chappelle? And he feels people act like you can't talk about these things. And it's I mean, he got all his fame because he was like a man of the people and now it's just, like, this weird rich man power high and hyper fixating on trans people, which is not helpful considering

Aicila [00:16:14]:

They're, like, less than 1% of the population, and they're and there's there were 700 pieces of legislation in the 1st 2 months of last year against them. 1% of the population. Seriously, even if trans people were somehow a danger, they are not the biggest danger, actually. And it's because of that. It's because that they're an easy target in that they don't have big numbers and a lot of people are not educated. We are ignorant of so many things. And I loved what you said about sometimes, yeah, you write a joke because you don't know, and you say it, and then somebody comes up to you because you can't know everything. And yes, there are some things that ignorance is gonna cost you because there's been enough awareness that you not knowing it is a sign of a lack of due diligence.

Aicila [00:17:00]:

However, really, most people are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, especially if you approach it from that place of, oh, that was super not what I thought I was doing, And let me change that up and acknowledge it. And I see it all the time. I see it on the Internet. Someone will post something and people pile on, and they're like, oh, I didn't get that that's what I was doing. How do I and then they make an adjustment. And some of them are like, I'm leaving that post up so you could see the thread and see the way I took a male call box. I want people to understand. So they're not editing themselves to look good or whatever.

Aicila [00:17:34]:

And I like that trend. I like that trend a lot because I feel like it's collective learning. There's there's things they used to do heart open heart surgery on people. They have video black and white videos of this where they poured asbestos on the heart to keep it clean.

Katie [00:17:51]:

Oh my god.

Aicila [00:17:52]:

No one would do that today. That wouldn't happen. No. But that No. That was just God. Accepted practice. We learn, we evolve, and collectively, we learn and evolve. So that, I think, is important.

Aicila [00:18:06]:

I have a lot of respect for comedy and comedians because I feel like they are the truth tellers to the communities. They can say things that need to be said in ways that people can actually hear them at times when it's dangerous often for other people to say it. So no burden to you. I put you on a pedestal in this way as a comedian.

Katie [00:18:24]:

But but

Aicila [00:18:26]:

I and I shared with you before we started the show. I've worked with comedians off and on in my years. And the ones that I worked with, there were no conversations in which I did not get jokes tested out on me. If we talk for 20 minutes, I got 5 or 6. And I hear them over and over again because they're constantly trying to get the right words, the right delivery, the the con the context, how people react, all of that. So

Katie [00:18:50]:

Yeah. Look at Lizzo. She had that lyric in her song that she just didn't know Yeah. Was a bad thing. And then she was like, I already I already edited it and re released it. I'm gonna be the change that I wanna see in the world and that was it. And then it's okay. Like, I've made mistakes.

Katie [00:19:11]:

I didn't know that the word powwow was an indigenous term, and someone reached out to me and they were, you've had powwow on your side. And I was like, oh my god. I had no idea. And so, I mean, it's just good to learn and be open to learning and just know that it's okay. Like, we don't know everything and we're constantly changing and language evolves and you should be open to new ideas. Mhmm.

Aicila [00:19:41]:

Well, and I love the Maya Angelou quote. It's do what you know until you know better, then do better. It's okay that you don't know. It's okay that And I say that with a caveat that I get that as a white lady, there are things I didn't know that it wasn't okay. I didn't know them. And also, what is it when you learn? When someone exposes you to information, do you lean in with curiosity? Do you step back with denial? Do you get offended, or do you get curious? And, of course, we all have those moments of of I I actually really admire you say people come up to you after the show to give you feedback. I'm just like I can't even imagine, like, that estimate creates such a a resilience in you to be able to receive that from folks and not fall apart or be get cranky, because I I'm like, wow. That would be a lot.

Katie [00:20:35]:

Yeah. No. It's I mean, it's mostly men. And so I have to take a deep breath and just, like, smile. And then I've also gotten a point after one of the last notes I got. I was like, I am also allowed to walk away from this because he's just gonna give me notes and he's not even a comedian and I don't need to listen to people that, like, are gonna be talk about how I how my speech is. That's so annoying. You hear so many comedians.

Katie [00:21:10]:

I mean, if you listen to a Lenny Bruce album Mhmm. Sometimes I'm like, this is like another language. Well, like, a lot of albums from back in the day. And I'm like, this is like a whole other language where people understood this. Why? And I just feel like it's just a way of control. It's like a sense of power. Mhmm. And so but still, if somebody was like, hey, that offends me and here's why, I'm open to the conversation.

Aicila [00:21:43]:

Yeah.

Katie [00:21:44]:

And you can always take it to with a grain of salt of what offends you. But it's hard as a comic because we are supposed to, like, ride that line of, like pushing buttons and like you said, kind of talking about the truth of things and finding ways to talk about hard subjects and not feel like you're getting canceled. Mhmm.

Aicila [00:22:16]:

So what is it that drew you to comedy? I I mean, unless you've told that story so many times, you have no interest in telling it again.

Katie [00:22:22]:

Oh, no. It's okay. I have told it to people, but I don't mind saying it. I've gotten it down to a good little belief.

Aicila [00:22:29]:

And let me add my little business is unusual twist. And so what is that spark that took you from whatever you experienced to, this is the thing I'm gonna do? Because it's hard work, and so you have to have a core sort of this is my thing. And how did where did that what sparked that for you?

Katie [00:22:47]:

I think I grew up Well, we were raised Catholic, but my whole family kind of stopped being religious later in my high school time. And I think that was also because of all the stuff going on with Catholic priests and stuff with pedophilia and everything. But I didn't know. I just was like, this is boring. Like Yeah. This Catholic church is so boring. Catholic maths. And so but my parents were very they're like new money.

Katie [00:23:24]:

So they both kinda grew up poor and then my dad got very successful as a lawyer and my mom, kinda quit her having a day job just to raise us. And so it was this, like, formulaic way of the patriarchal family views that my parents were like, you're going to college and going to art school. Art school is so weird because you do learn a lot about art, but, like, it doesn't teach you business classes. It doesn't teach you advertising yourself or putting your, like, it just we have a quick seminar about that. The my senior year of college. But so I always thought I was just gonna be doing lots of school and in the studio and doing that. But, like, my whole life, I also was, like, always trying to be funny, and I remember pretending to be a stand up comedian for my friends

Aicila [00:24:20]:

Mhmm.

Katie [00:24:20]:

When I was, like, in 5th grade and just doing the motions of holding a hairbrush and being, like, saying silly things. And you just there's no outlets. You don't it's so hard to find it until you find it. And so my artwork is very, conceptual and sometimes funny. And then when I got to college, it was like, I was like, I just wanna make people laugh with my art a lot of the time. But I also wanna like, I have a sexual awakening in college because I was so insecure until the time I got to college and I had friends that helped me become more, okay with myself. And then through time, after I graduated college, like, I thought I was gonna go right to grad school for art. And one of my mentors was like, I don't think you're ready.

Katie [00:25:15]:

And she gave me this, like, long explanation and it really hurt, but I really respected her opinion and I was like, maybe she's right. And then I took time off from thinking about school and found comedy because I went on a date with someone to a improv show and then the rest is history. And it's just funny because if I didn't get told no, I would have never found a way to get to comedy. And then once I had I was like, this is what I've been looking for, like, my whole life. So I just didn't know there's like local comedy scenes and ways to do it. There's no school for comedy. I mean, there's improv classes and stuff, but you there's no advertising for it really when you're growing up. Unless you're maybe in LA or New York or Chicago, but now it's more prominently everywhere.

Katie [00:26:11]:

There's more access to it. And I think it's a lot easier for people to get into comedy now because there's so many resources. There's lots of comedy classes now.

Aicila [00:26:22]:

When did you start? People. It was than 6 years ago.

Katie [00:26:26]:

Yes. It was 2014. So I'm coming up on my comedy anniversary, and my first improv class was in in May of 2014. And then I started stand up that fall in October.

Aicila [00:26:43]:

And that

Katie [00:26:44]:

was like, I I always grew up watching more sketch comedy. Like, I loved watching SNL. That was a huge one with my family. I love comedy movies during the big super bad and 40 Year Old Virgin and Forgetting Sarah Marshall, like that whole Mhmm. Time frame of movie shows. And I mean, I did grow up also watching Friends and like all the sitcoms and stuff like that too and a healthy blend of horror films. But and I I would go in and out of stand up. I'd listen to stand up albums, and so that's how I got into it.

Aicila [00:27:32]:

That's awesome, and it's such a circular path. Right?

Katie [00:27:38]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I

Aicila [00:27:39]:

know that And then

Katie [00:27:40]:

I would I'd

Aicila [00:27:41]:

was like, I don't know anyone that's just gone there. No. No. It was good. I just don't know that I know anyone that's sort of, like, walked right into it.

Katie [00:27:49]:

Yeah. It's weird. And I didn't even remember that little elementary moment of me pretending to be a comedian until I was, like, doing stand up and stuff. And I was like, oh my god. I remember, like, being at my friend Casey's house, and I was hanging off with Casey and Megan. And I was like, you guys sit in the bed, and I'm gonna sit on the stool and tell you jokes. And I didn't know anything about stand up, obviously, as a kid. So I think I had seen some I must have seen, like, a Carmen Lynch or a Wanda Sykes that I was just, like, reiterating it or maybe Joan Rivers.

Katie [00:28:30]:

And I was like, so I got my period today, and I, like, hadn't even had my period yet. I was just, like, saying, like, what I heard on television. You know what I mean? So Mhmm. It's just funny how it's oh, man. You really see your little ideas that shape you as a child, like Yeah. Later in life.

Aicila [00:28:57]:

So do you have any advice that you, like, go to for your 10 years or that you feel like if someone's either trying comedy or thinking about it? Is there something or even just being a performer that you're like, this is my go to or this is

Katie [00:29:13]:

So if you're going to email anyone to pick their brain, offer them something, get them coffee, Get the a meal or something. A lot of people probably don't wanna do it, and a lot of people won't respond to you. I've been there. I literally was that kid that was like, what can I do? I was reaching out to all these people and a lot of people just don't and maybe they don't have the time, but they just don't wanna do it. So I'm like, if you have something to be like, hey, I'd love to buy you coffee or something and talk to you about comedy. A lot of comics love a cup of coffee and a lot of comments can talk about comedy all day long. You know what I mean? So Mhmm. Or going out and supporting their staff.

Katie [00:30:01]:

Follow them. Go see their shows, listen to their albums. I feel like a lot of newer comics don't want a lot of there's a lot of new talent that doesn't wanna watch comedy, and I think that's crazy because I mean, that's why I got into it because I loved watching it. Like, I still get so sad when I think about how Chris Farley will never grace us with his presence again. And same with Robin Williams and Gilda Radner, like, all those people. You just never know also when you're like, that's the last bit of content you'll ever see from them. And so I just think watching comedy in every form is so important. I think improv classes so I went from improv to stand up.

Katie [00:30:57]:

And if you're have major stage fright, improv will help you do activities that break that and help you shake it out. It also teaches you how to comedically build. So, I mean, if you wanna even get into writing, like, that's a huge part of it. It really helped me with joke structure. And so you also can take stand up classes now, which is super helpful. But the most important thing is trying to get this much stage time as you can. So, like, improv classes are a great way to get on stage and also, you know, you're learning to share the stage with other people. You're learning to do character work.

Katie [00:31:36]:

Those are all amazing things that help you become a good stand up comedian. And maybe you just stay in improv and you love improv and it's your favorite thing in the world and then you leads to like sketch comedy or clowning. But I think taking different workshops of all of them are really helpful. And then get on stage as much as you can. For me, I if I can, I'll try to hit an open mic is whenever especially if I don't have shows that week, I'll hit an open mic just to get the feel of speaking into a microphone. And a lot of people now will argue that they don't they, like, reach a point where they don't think it's helpful going to open mic sitting, waiting, and talking into a void. But I am like, Orla will be like, I'll just go to a showcase and ask for 5 minutes or whatever. I was like, I don't have the balls to do that.

Katie [00:32:32]:

I'll show up. And if someone gives me a drop in spot, that's beautiful. I'm never gonna be like, can I do 5? Because I just I also produce shows that I know that it's sometimes the lineup is so booked. You're just I wanna keep it as tight as possible. It's hard to squeeze people on sometimes if if it's like an overbooked lineup and stuff like that. And so but showing up, sometimes people will give you a spot if it's a light lineup or they'll book you later on. Like just being out there and showing face is a huge part of it. Getting to know other, like, hanging out with other comics is a big part of it too.

Katie [00:33:11]:

Just like going and supporting their rooms and their shows. But for me, I think just speaking into the void, even if it's not, I'm not getting any laughs, it helps me. It's like rehearsing in my bedroom. And typically, even if that's happening, there's a mic I go to in town where there's always this like one old man and he'll laugh. And he's, like, watching, and I'm like, that's all I need. I just need to run it on someone. You know what I mean? And I don't Mhmm. Like a whole room just to figure that out for myself.

Katie [00:33:47]:

For me, it's also just saying it out loud and then I take that recording and I listen to it and and I just like ponder on it like how can I get there faster or where can I trim the fat? And that just helps me build material. And now there's also a lot of people who are like, oh, I don't wanna you know, when you get started, they're like, comedy works is like a really good audience. Like, it's almost so good that people argue it's not real life. And they'll be like, that's not how people are in most audiences, and it's there's some truth to that sometimes. It's a good room, but I mean if you travel around the country, there's just as many great rooms like that too. Hit mics because you wanna work on staff. And I think when you're new in those first two years, when I started, I was trying to hit 5 mics a week if I could.

Aicila [00:34:39]:

Yeah.

Katie [00:34:39]:

And it's just the stage time and just watching other people's sets. Something that I also notice is a lot of comics when they start, They're not actually watching the sets. They're just there to try to do their sets, or they didn't even plan anything before they got on stage. And I'm like, what are you doing?

Aicila [00:34:58]:

Yeah.

Katie [00:34:58]:

And that's also a lot of these crowd work videos are making people not think presently. But to me, good stand up is not worrying about who's filming you. It's about connecting with the people that are 5 feet away from you. And that is where it's going to you know, if you're thinking about trying to get a good clip, you're not here. You're not in the moment. And there's you gotta be a little present to actually crash, and I truly believe that.

Aicila [00:35:30]:

That's really great advice. Being present is, I think, key to so many things. And and the antidote, honestly, to a lot of the things that I find to be discouraging these days. Performers, comedians, musicians, there is often a a there's a lot of rumors. Like, they're they're very introverted. There was a rash of suicides in the music world in the last several years. I don't know statistically if it's a lot, but it feels like that. How do you keep yourself, you know, inspired and, you know, going in a somewhat from the outside, it seems like brutal industry?

Katie [00:36:09]:

I think reaching out to friends, making sure you have a community of support is so important. Like family is great for a lot of people, but for me, I need more than just family. I think that also I'll if I don't talk to people, sometimes I'll spend the whole day at home just working on stuff, being alone, and then I start getting in this weird headspace. And the minute I go out and talk to people, I'm like, oh, that was nice. And it's because we're social creatures. You need to like Mhmm. Be. You need to hang out with people.

Katie [00:36:42]:

You need to leave your house sometimes. Especially, I think the pandemic really showed people how much they love their home. But also, you get in this weird headspace where you start feeling I think it's like a it's like a phobia of interacting with people and assuming the worst. And the truth is people change and we never know who is gonna hang around for the long haul, but I try to look back on any friendship that's end and been like, man, we had some really good times while it lasted. And fuck them for leaving me. No. I'm just kidding. Yeah.

Katie [00:37:27]:

You try to look at those times and you're like, that was great.

Aicila [00:37:30]:

Yeah.

Katie [00:37:32]:

And so I think just keeping yourself open to, like, new relationships in your life, keeping your hearts as they say in yoga, keeping your heart space open is, like, a very important thing. And it's everything terrible in the world is because people are being closed off and greedy. And I mean, wholeheartedly, white supremacy is an awful thing and we have so much to undo with that and homophobia. But, the only way to heal it is to be a light for others to see so that they can lighten up too and just be open to I wanna be more active in helping people feel more comfortable and just supported in any way that I can.

Aicila [00:38:25]:

I think that's really true. I I've over the last years, just the more different communities I've worked with around things, the more I've really come to believe that it's it's about being connected to the people in your community. Maybe it's that old saw. Right? Think globally, act locally. Like, I have to care about what's happening in other parts of the world. I can't, like, shut it out and pretend it's not Yep. A problem, and I have a lot more power right here. And this is an old refrain for me, So I apologize to you all who are listening if I leave this in the episode.

Aicila [00:39:02]:

But I would love to see that world. What if we had everybody do whatever they could to help those around them for a week? What would happen? How would the world be different if we lived in that world? Totally. It'd be pretty amazing.

Katie [00:39:17]:

It really is. Like, what would the world be like if we were way more open about helping people and, just listening. And there's such a defensiveness about just help, like, just giving other people love right now. That's why and that and in these times, that's why circling back to the r word and shit. I just have no patience for it because I'm like, stop trying to put down people who can't even fucking stick up for themselves. Like, that you that's no different than waving a dollar in front of a homeless person and then keeping it. Like, you're just you're not helping and you're not making people feel welcome and imagine, I always go back in those slots too. Imagine what, the world would be like if all of our queer family from history could have been so open about their sexuality and gender.

Katie [00:40:17]:

I think about I'm like, who would have been non binary? Because I mean, at the end of the day is, like, there's a lack of empathy in the world. Mhmm. And it goes in so many directions.

Aicila [00:40:29]:

Yeah. I think you're right. Like, during COVID, it got amplified. People forgot how to be people. And I do and let's be clear. I love the Internet. I love tech. I am all into it.

Aicila [00:40:41]:

And I also see the ways in which we have to find ways to integrate it that do not dehumanize ourselves and others quite as much as we have, maybe at all. I don't know. It's a little radical. But I feel like we've lost that connection. And I think connection is the antidote and the key. And I think technology can be a way to enhance it. It's just like with AI. All the AI projects that are getting funding are pretty destructive, and and they've shown that actually AI has the possibility of being a groundbreaking support for healthcare.

Aicila [00:41:14]:

That it could make a huge difference for health care professionals to be able to essentially use AI to help problem solve around some of the things that they're working with and to get more consistent information, feedback, and sets of questions to prompt them. And that's not what we're investing in. Right? Yeah.

Katie [00:41:35]:

All the way.

Aicila [00:41:36]:

This is the thing I find really interesting is that most of the people that I talk to and I talk to people across the political and ideological spectrum, both in my personal life and in my professional life and just in the world. I'm willing to listen to people through a lot of conversations. I have a high tolerance. Even when I I have a disagreement, I'm happy to sort of get curious into what they're talking about. Most people want the same things. They want clean air, clean water, physical health. They want to be able to have some degree over their control of where they live. They want to feel like some sense of security for their future.

Aicila [00:42:14]:

They want to be part of a community. Some people are misanthropic, so they wanna be a part of a community that they don't interact with. But they wanna know what's out there.

Katie [00:42:22]:

Right? Yeah, totally.

Aicila [00:42:23]:

And yet, with all of that, the the the public vitriolic conversations are fixated on some honestly, I weird side quests. It's just no Yeah. Really and truly, like, what what is happening here? And there's lots of of culprits that we can point to, and it's confusing because it there's so many people that legitimately are on the same team and have the same desires and yet fight each other for reasons I don't think we even always understand. Motivations. We don't always get feel connected to. So Yeah.

Katie [00:43:05]:

Well, and it's

Aicila [00:43:05]:

My big

Katie [00:43:06]:

The cancel culture is a complicated thing, isn't it? Because no one really gets canceled. And it's so funny.

Aicila [00:43:13]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie [00:43:14]:

People were, like, telling me that I'm canceled for supporting Palestine when I because I got doxxed back into the fall. It sucked. But it's slowly my account is slowly recovering and I just it's whatever. But I was like, cancel culture is not doesn't work. And they were like, what do you mean? Yes. It does. And I'm like, maybe it works for women because I was joking. But I was like, women women speak up about stuff.

Katie [00:43:45]:

It's getting better. But look at Chanette O'Connor. Like, she got completely lost her career, and then she was like, actually, I'm gonna continue being an activist, which is great. But also look at Kathy Griffin, and I've said this on another podcast recently. I'm like, women get booted when they do a little thing. And then it's like, Bill Cosby just got acquitted. Oh, Kevin Spacey just got acquitted. And or he's to be acquitted is what I was reading the other day.

Katie [00:44:17]:

Chris D'Elia, he's still in all these clubs. He's online where lots of children are and he's a known pedophile. And so it's like what and that whole Shane Gillis thing was interesting because everyone's like he's racist, he does all these things, but then everyone's putting so much spotlight on him. It made his career even better. And then he went back to host SNL which is crazy. And so it's weird how the pendulum kinda swings back and forth with, oh, we're all canceling this person, but then it still helps their career in some way. And so I was talking to my mom about I'm trying to explain gender and pronouns and sexuality to my parents who are boomers.

Aicila [00:45:09]:

Mhmm.

Katie [00:45:09]:

And so it's like I have tons of friends whose pronouns are very different. And I always am, like, worried about my mom mis misgendering people accidentally because she just doesn't know. And so I'm trying to explain it to her and it's I'm realizing how her mind she's literally needs like a 101 gender 101 class or something. She just doesn't know because she's in Texas and she's a boomer and so she's not hearing these conversations every day. Whereas Right. Colorado, I was telling her, like, mom, it's and everything here. If you you have to put your pronouns on stuff. And I'm just teaching her and she doesn't she's like learning the language.

Katie [00:46:00]:

And so I think there is, like, you gotta see a little bit of meeting across the aisle so these people can learn what it is. Because I think, you know, hearing oh, you're misgendering someone. Someone might be like, what? I'm what? And they get defensive versus, hey, have you heard the new language that we're all using? This is in offices. This is in schools, and it's probably going to eventually get to you. But Yeah. It's the future. So do you wanna learn it? There's so many ways that we can lead conversations with empathy and understanding that people we gotta meet people where they're at in order to make change. That's frustrating, but it's also the truth.

Aicila [00:46:47]:

Well, it it worked with this woman. She's actually the first guest for this season. Amina Chowdhury, one of her courses is called the art of interrupting racism. And that's one of the things that she talked about in the class that I thought was interesting was that when when you step away, if you say, oh, I can't deal with my mom around this, then that becomes the transgender person's problem. Whereas if you lean in even when I caveat caveat, of course, if there's danger it's different. But especially for those of us who who have family and friends who live in a variety of places, having the time and the space to have that conversation means it takes the burden off of the trans person or the person of color or the, person with disabilities so that they don't have to have that conversation with that person in that way. That you have created an on ramp for understanding. And maybe she'll take it up, maybe she won't, but at least she has that to work with.

Aicila [00:47:45]:

And she confronts that situation, she has something to draw. And instead of her own ignorance, and instead of just her her ingrained reaction, you're giving everybody a little bit of opportunity there. And I thought that was such an interesting thing to to identify because I feel to your point a little bit that when folks get exasperated, oh, my family doesn't get it, they'll step away. And there are times I know when that's needed, but I think a lot of times it's it's, it's almost like a virtue signaling. Oh, they couldn't get it, so I'm not gonna have anything to do with them. And I'm just like, Ori, you could give them a chance to get it, and you could also take that burden off of that the the person, the stranger that's gonna have to teach them.

Katie [00:48:29]:

Yeah. Totally. That's so true. Oh my god. That's so true. Because

Aicila [00:48:35]:

Oh, man.

Katie [00:48:36]:

That's where it's happening.

Aicila [00:48:38]:

So for folks that are listening, we we talked about your Instagram handle katabomanrocks, and that's also your website. That's the best place to find you.

Katie [00:48:47]:

Yes.

Aicila [00:48:48]:

And you you have an art handle. Do you wanna share that, or do you want people to just go to your website? Or what's the best way?

Katie [00:48:54]:

Way? So katieboman.rox, that's rocks, is my website, and there's links to all my handles there. And on social media, I'm either katiebombancomedyorthecurlybushforart.

Aicila [00:49:07]:

That's awesome. Wonderful. And thank you so much for your time today and all the things that you shared about comedy and presents and curly bushes, but you didn't really. But now I want you

Katie [00:49:17]:

to know. Well, obviously, it's because of the hair. I was like, what is a funny because I do some sexy art, and I was like, what is, like, a funny, sexy, cute, but not so out there? And it's so funny because my business, my small business is called the Curly Bush and I just run my taxes under that for anything that goes through art or performance. And I remember when I started it, one of the government workers was like, how'd you get that name? And I was like, oh, because I have curly hair. And then there's just, like, silence on the phone. We're like, oh. Fantastic. I know.

Katie [00:50:02]:

It's just funny because it's a cute name too, the curly bush.

Aicila [00:50:06]:

Yeah. I

Katie [00:50:07]:

think it's empowering to people to grow their bushes out. Stop living with an itchy.

Aicila [00:50:15]:

I mean, that that feels like a perfect note to to end on. Don't don't live with an itchy biche and follow Katie. She's got a lot to offer. She's here in the Colorado area, but also all over the country.

Katie [00:50:28]:

I'll be in Minneapolis the end of April, and I'll be doing all the don't tell shows there.

Aicila [00:50:35]:

Check out our website or end. She'll have some shows at the end of April in Minneapolis for my folks that are out there, and thank you so much for joining me today, and thanks everybody for listening.

Katie [00:50:46]:

Thank you.