Empowering Entrepreneurs: Tonia Fisher on Legal Awareness and Self-Care in Business

Business as UNusual Ep 22 - Season 3 Transcript

Edited s3e22 Tonia Fisher

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Aicila: Hi. Welcome to Business as Unusual. I am so excited to be talking with Tonia Fisher today. Welcome to the show, Tonia. I'm very excited to have you here.

[00:00:09] Tonia: I'm excited to be here. I'm so excited. This is the highlight of my day.

[00:00:15] Aicila: Same. It's I always love when I get to visit with you. Before we dive in, cause Tonia and I can tat a lot guys. We're going to do our best to stay focused. Will you tell folks a little bit about your business, what you're up to right now? And anything else that you feel is good for them to know in terms of what you're up to.

[00:00:34] Tonia: My business is actually giving legal education and training to digital content creators as well as online businesses, but there's a little difference in what I like to do with my business because I am a intellectual property attorney, but I feel that you don't always need an attorney for the [00:01:00] legal in your business.

[00:01:01] Tonia: What I'm providing is actually the information, the training, the tools that help you actually protect your brand. Because it's all about brand protection because that's how, of course, you are going to succeed by protecting your business, protecting your brand, making sure your legal is in order. When we hear legal, the first thing we're thinking money.

[00:01:26] Tonia: It's too expensive. I can't deal with it. Right. And the next thing is, even if I could pay for it. I don't know what I need. That sounds crazy. That's not only in my budget, but it's just not in my thought process. It's overwhelming. What do you mean? I need to know this. I need to know that. It becomes something that it's fearful. It's overwhelming. You don't know who to talk to. You don't know what to ask, even if you get an attorney. So what do you do? You tend to not Pay attention to your [00:02:00] legal or you ignore it or you let it slide and things happen. What I do is I come in and I'm like, yes, you do need an attorney, but what you need from an attorney is actually the information, the resources.

[00:02:15] Tonia: You may not necessarily need the direct. One on one consultation, because if anything, you know, your business better than I do, you know, your business better than any attorney. What I'm telling you is how to do the things you do in your business, but make sure that you are complying with whatever legal consideration that is there.

[00:02:38] Tonia: Think of legal as a tool, as a team member, actually, so my entire business is just having that option and a little bit more than just having like templates and resources, but actually a little bit of ongoing support.

[00:02:57] Tonia: You wouldn't necessarily come to [00:03:00] me for direct consultation. You're going to come to me to say, Hey, this is what's going on in my business. What do I need? What tools do I need? What training? Let's talk it out instead

[00:03:14] Aicila: Yeah,

[00:03:15] Tonia: giving me the consulting. So that's what I'm up to. Mm-Hmm.

[00:03:20] Aicila: I love that distinction. I feel like as a operations support and strategy support person for different consultants and businesses and business owners, that is a niche. That I feel is honestly developing. Similar to legal, marketing is another one branding where people know they need to get the word out, right?

[00:03:42] Aicila: Like they're aware if you want people to know what you're doing, you have to tell people and it's a huge umbrella. And people confuse branding with marketing with ad campaigns and each of them is very distinct and the kinds of things that you're attempting to do and is I work with marketing and branding professionals.

[00:03:59] Aicila: [00:04:00] So I'm really in it now, but a year ago, 2 years ago, if you'd asked me, I'd have been like, yeah, it's all the same. And so getting that education from someone and really getting a sense of, oh, actually what I need is an ad campaign versus no, I really need to work on my brand as a whole and then you can get a better sense of who to hire and what to expect from that process. It's kind of the same thing as when you're working on your house, I see it. Like, are you doing a remodel? Are you doing, do you need a handy person? Do you need someone to come in who understands load bearing walls and how to manage that? And it sounds to me, if I come to you, you're going to help me determine, do I need a handy person?

[00:04:40] Aicila: Do I need a full construction crew?

[00:04:42] Aicila: Do I need to go find someone who can get me permits in the. You know, in the realm of the legal side of things my

[00:04:49] Aicila: analogy might confuse people. She doesn't do construction that I know of, although she has many skills.

[00:04:55] Tonia: perfect analogy because it is the foundations and people when they're doing [00:05:00] business, they separate the legal from the foundation. But your business is just one of the parts of your foundations. When you start your business, people are thinking about the structures of their business. Like if you're a sole proprietorship, if you're LLC, if you're going to be a corporation, that's legal. But what is that really? That's just determining. Your businesses way of doing business. How you're going to be categorized. And how you're going to be protected, right? Particularly, and I love that you brought up with marketing and, promotions and advertising and things too, because it's the things that we don't think about even in your social everyday operations. If you're posting on social, you need to know, okay, how am I talking about my sponsorships? Okay. So that's legal, but that's an everyday business thing, right? That's your advertising and promotions. My testimonials that I'm putting up. Am I saying all of the things that I'm doing in a manner, [00:06:00] that, is truthful to all are understandable.

[00:06:02] Tonia: So they don't think I'm doing something else or whatever. It's the way that you do your payment terms. Okay. And this is any business. It doesn't matter, but we tend to separate thinking that's our business operation. That's a business matter, and it's not a legal matter. And that's what I want to get people to understand.

[00:06:22] Tonia: Don't think of legal as something fearful or just something overbearing or burdensome. It's the things that you do every day, which are payment terms. You let everybody know what they're paying, when they're paying, what they're paying for, what happens if they're not getting what they want. Making sure there are no misunderstandings.

[00:06:40] Tonia: It's your everyday operation is just making sure that things go seamlessly. And smoothly. So I think if that's taken out of it and people really understand more or less what they need, because here's another thing you're like, Oh, I'm in business. Well, if I'm a [00:07:00] online coach, I'm going to need this contract.

[00:07:02] Tonia: You're not going to need a sponsorship contract at that point, unless you're doing sponsorships. Okay. Yes. You need website policies and things like that, coaching agreements, but there's so many things out there that you're seeing that people are selling bundles for. No, you don't need, okay, but you need to know what your business is doing.

[00:07:21] Tonia: And Hey, what are the tools? Think of the legal as your tool. What tool do I need that'll help me give my customers, my clients, the extraordinary, extraordinary, the amazing brand experience that I want to give them. And that's what you do in your business. You just make sure that you're doing it that's fair to you and your community and your customers and clients.

[00:07:50] Aicila: right. Well, and I do feel like my experience of business and legal over the years is for example, I ran [00:08:00] nonprofits for a long time and I learned in that experience that There are some things that are not intuitive that are also legally required, and it's not just common sense. To a certain extent, there is, the reasonable person Test - if a reasonable person would consider this to be okay, you don't have to know the full scope of the law. and there's little things that are a good example is probably like, you know, political issues. A nonprofit can. In political issues, they cannot engage in candidate endorsements, so they can talk about policy issues that affect the work that they're doing. However, if you say, we really believe in this policy in this district in this way, and that happens to align with a particular candidate in a way that might be the perceived to be an endorsement, [00:09:00] that can be considered to be a concern.

[00:09:02] Aicila: However, you're only going to get in trouble if someone reports you. So lots of people do things without really realizing they've skirted that line. And then there's also like the amount of resources that you use for it. You can't use more than 10%. Does that include in kind donations? And so it's, once again, there's a lot of judgment calls in it.

[00:09:20] Aicila: And that's why Looking to there used to be a legal company that actually donated to nonprofits. You could call them up and say, this is how we're going. And I took a lot of trainings on what, how to know when I couldn't make the judgment, honestly, it was a big part of it,

[00:09:36] Tonia: And

[00:09:36] Aicila: but it's not my judgment call.

[00:09:38] Aicila: I got to call somebody else.

[00:09:39] Tonia: that's the biggest thing because with legal, and that's where I understand where the fear and the overwhelm come from. And that's what I'm really trying to like ease and calm and give people the confidence of it because there is so much that you don't know and things happen because you don't know what you don't know, but.[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Tonia: It's the manner and the way that it's presented to you and particularly for your business. Now people will look up things and they'll, go to different lawyers. And like you said, if you're going to do nonprofits or whatever, you should make sure always that you are trying to talk to an attorney or someone that maybe they're giving legal advice that maybe that they've been.

[00:10:28] Tonia: In your industry or they're relatively familiar with your industry. Because while I know a lot about digital content creators and some online businesses, yeah, I know a little bit about nonprofits, but if you came to me for nonprofit information, I'm going to give you the general information that I see.

[00:10:46] Tonia: We're both looking and learning together, which is great, but sometimes you do have to look outside Of just any attorney, like I'm not going to go to a tax attorney to help me with trademark. [00:11:00] And please. I do IP intellectual property copyright. Do not ask me for any taxing. The first thing I'll say, but you do need to know the base of what your business does.

[00:11:13] Tonia: And that is really hard for people. It's hard enough for people to figure out the everyday that they need to know for their business, right? It's like, you're worried about your offer. You're worried about your pricing. You're worried about your market, your audience that's crazy enough as it is.

[00:11:29] Tonia: And then you're like, okay. Well, within those, how do I go about the legal? So what I do tell people in that sense is you need, you do need to know your business and that's, what's really important. So we're to know what your business is to know what the legal is that goes within it. If you are doing health and wellness, there are going to be some things that you need to know about particularly privacy, right?

[00:11:52] Tonia: There HIPAA. So you're going to have to be careful. You can't say Even sometimes if you are a [00:12:00] doctor is best not to put yourself out there as a medical doctor in the particular information that you're saying, you're saying, yes, I'm a doctor, but I'm not your doctor. Just like lawyers say, yes, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer in this capacity is educational.

[00:12:17] Tonia: And you're like, but wait, it is what I do. I should be able to say this, but sometimes you can't give nutritional advice, right? Sometime I can't give you tax. advice, tax, legal tax law advice. It's not my area of expertise, but going back to really, the things that made me go. And structure my business the way that I do is because of things that happened to me. I'm a lawyer and there are things that I know I started a business and I didn't know much about business, but I knew how things worked in the law.

[00:12:57] Tonia: I did a fitness studio, but [00:13:00] I'm going to tell you, I no longer have my fitness studio because I didn't know commercial real estate law. That's what brought me down of all the things, and they're like, you're a lawyer. You should have known. Yeah. You know, you're not going to know everything. Okay.

[00:13:13] Tonia: And there are things that happen. And so we're all out here just trying to figure out how to do our best, how to be best for our clients and hope that we get the information that we can. And, but again, You don't know what you don't know. And that's why it's so important to have resources, to have a place, someone who will give you ongoing support.

[00:13:37] Tonia: And also within a community of other business, owners and entrepreneurs who are going through the same things who possibly and probably, and do have better answers to some of your questions that are going on your business and how to particularly navigate the legal. Then the lawyer does [00:14:00] because they know the everyday operation.

[00:14:03] Tonia: So,

[00:14:05] Aicila: That makes a lot of sense. Like I said, having worked in the nonprofit world for like 15 years, I don't even think of that as being knowledge, right? Like it was, but I did a lot of trainings on where, what, how to get a sense of how to guide my board members and my staff in that, because I was a staff person.

[00:14:21] Aicila: Board members are coming in and out. They're volunteers. So there's a responsibility in my opinion for the staff, be able to like help them understand how it works and also how to understand how to protect the organization.

[00:14:32] Aicila: When there was an uncertainty, like where is, where is our line on this?

[00:14:35] Aicila: Cause they did a lot of LGBTQ activism. And so of course we wanted to talk about political things. We were being legally discriminated against, and I didn't want to do it in a way that was going to get us shut down. Cause that wouldn't work. And so really getting a sense of where that gray area was and staying well out of it while also absolutely committing ourselves to doing the work that we needed to do for our community. And what you just said, like that different [00:15:00] businesses, that makes total sense. If you're working in real estate versus tax, the people who really have experience are going to know the similarly, , like if someone asked me those questions around the nonprofit world, I could give them a lot of direction. Not legal advice. And that's one of the things I actually really love. I feel like there's a lot of specialization and, I think that's neat. People get to shine and what they're most capable at and most excited about. However, it does mean that there's this space. What you talked about at the beginning between knowing we need a service and actually understanding, what service or what aspect of that service we need. And I don't feel like I've seen, it's one of the things I really inspired. Obviously I also think you're a delightful human. And but the, what inspired me to want to bring you on the show is that it seems like a unique niche that there aren't a lot of people doing. Not legal education, but education about how to understand what sort of legal support you [00:16:00] need. I haven't seen that as a service, but I really feel like it's a great idea. Mm

[00:16:07] Tonia: from talking to people that you're trying to help out. And you start to find out that you're like, okay, just need. Information and not so much in a DIY sense or Google, but you need to have a space where you can really ask questions. And again, not be so worried about, okay, how much is this going to cost me?

[00:16:33] Tonia: What's going on? What if I have another question? Cause a lot of times you'll go into a law office or you'll talk to an attorney and you know, it's 300 or more an hour. So you're trying to get in everything you need, but you feel like there's just this one question and you'll go in with the one question and you still leave out not knowing what you wanted to know.

[00:16:54] Tonia: You'll have some legal information about that, but overall that's just one [00:17:00] aspect of your business. And so what I really think that would really help businesses and entrepreneurs is if we open up that legal education, not to say, Oh, if you come to me and I talk to you, that you're going to feel like you've been in law school.

[00:17:19] Tonia: No one wants to be bored with legal. If you wanted to be a lawyer, you wanted to know the law, you would go to law school, but you just want to generally know if the way that I'm conducting business Then I'm doing things in the best manner for myself, the best interest of myself, the best interest of my business.

[00:17:37] Tonia: And I don't need a whole legal, encyclopedia of it. And I don't want to pay a lot of money and I just want to talk it out. And that's one of the biggest things I want to emphasize really quick is because. If we just talk to each other and we talk it out, you'll [00:18:00] find out. It's not so scary. Everybody goes through this and maybe you're already doing what you need to know, but the way that we're taught as lawyers, you're coming in, somebody comes in consult, you give them the law, you tell them what things are to be done, and even now I'll tell you the shift that's been going on and you'll see a lot of that.

[00:18:22] Tonia: I also want people to be A little cautious of, but before the old process, we knew we started a business. We're going to have a collaboration with someone, right? You just go to a lawyer. You tell them I need a contract. You sit with the lawyer. They write up a contract for you, right? That's it. You go on, maybe they'll explain to you what the terms are in the contract.

[00:18:48] Tonia: Maybe not. You just went to get a contract because you needed one, right? They tell you, you need a contract, you get a contract. So then the next thing, what happened? And I don't know if you've seen a lot of this. But now [00:19:00] everyone is selling contracts. So this is scary to me. And that's why I started really saying, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, we need to be educated because now you can go on and you can get a, for 500, which Everyone prices their contracts differently but you could just go online besides downloading something for free, but you can get a lawyer drafted contract or something for 200 to 500.

[00:19:29] Tonia: But still, and they'll tell you what to fill in the blanks, but yeah, I know where to put my name, my address. The how much it's going to cost the services I'm going to give, but really, can I explain that to the other party, the other person, the person I'm collaborating with? So say you have a podcast, right?

[00:19:48] Tonia: So I'm giving my guest a podcast agreement and I'm like here's what this says, you could do this and that let's put our names in. Do you really know what that means? [00:20:00] Do, can you explain to them if something happens, why they can't have the recording or so, or why you edited the recording or certain way?

[00:20:12] Tonia: No, cause you just put in a contract. I don't care if you didn't get it just off the internet and you paid for it. You don't have that ability to understand how you're really protecting your business, what it really means to protect your business. Are all those pieces in that contract really what you want to say, or do you want to say it a different way?

[00:20:34] Tonia: You want to have that capability to do your business. As you do your business by, but at the same time, stay legally protected. And hopefully you're starting to see that lawyers are getting people who are getting these contracts off of the internet and then coming to them after everything's gone [00:21:00] crazy.

[00:21:00] Tonia: I want you to be proactive. I don't want to be that attorney that fixes everything. I want to be that attorney that when you've come to me, when you've gotten the information, that not only are you confident, but you really have something that works in your favor, that's fair to whoever's on the other side of that contract.

[00:21:19] Tonia: To whoever is going to be affected by that between you and the other person, the entire community as a whole, when you and someone else are doing business. So it goes beyond your business interests and then it'll go beyond the other person's business interests. You got to think about it as the community as a whole.

[00:21:37] Tonia: And

[00:21:38] Tonia: that's one of the things too, that. is important to me when I'm talking to someone about their legal. It's like, yeah, your rights, your rights, your rights, your rights, your rights, please protect your rights. But at the same time, it should be about sharing your talents. Your expertise, your [00:22:00] creations, your innovations, your purpose, your vision, getting it out there without being so afraid that someone's going to steal it from you.

[00:22:09] Tonia: Or, just how could I say, just being so fearful and strict that then you just make it difficult for other people too. So, a lot

[00:22:22] Aicila: There's this little sweet spot. I have so many questions that I know we're a little short on time because you have another thing to pop to. I really love this idea and I love hearing about a lawyer that's caring about community. The lawyer that I hired when I started my business, part of why I hired her, was she did a presentation for the small business development association. And she said, I'm not going to help you screw people. Like

[00:22:46] Aicila: I'll help you set up fair contracts. I'll help you set up your business. And if, if you're like, kind of feeling like you want to get at someone, I'm not your gal.

[00:22:55] Aicila: And I was like, then you're my gal.

[00:22:57] Tonia: Yes.

[00:22:58] Aicila: And she was, she's great. [00:23:00] She's always been really helpful. I get. Good advice. I feel very fairly treated and

[00:23:05] Aicila: I feel confident that my business, it reflects my values, honestly, like you said., I'm protecting my business, but I'm also making sure that I'm behaving in a way that's pro social that I care about the community.

[00:23:17] Tonia: And I think that's such an important point too, because as you know, as the community audits that you're listening, this is one of the most important things besides learning and knowing about the law. It's where you're getting your information. From two, because, that's one of the things why people, are so fearful.

[00:23:36] Tonia: They're so overwhelmed with the law because they're inundated with, you get these 15 page contracts or things like that, or somebody's telling you have to do this or this and that, but you want to go with someone that has the same values. They know what you're doing and there are so many attorneys out there.

[00:23:54] Tonia: Take your time, finding your attorney. Take your time [00:24:00] finding your resources that are out there. Just make sure that these resources align. With the way you do business, your core values and who you are, and just how you really did want to have this experience and what you want to offer. Because yes, the law is going to be the same, less for everyone.

[00:24:28] Tonia: It's just how you are learning to present it, how you are learning to keep. Because as many people think that the law, Is there to tell them they can't do anything. The law is there to tell you all of the amazing things you can do, and it's protecting you so that you can do those things so that your clients, your community is fairly protected so that they can keep benefiting from your services.

[00:24:59] Tonia: [00:25:00] So that everyone wins, that it keeps at the boundaries that people think are to restrict them, but the boundaries in the manner of that, they aren't restricted. So it's kind of creating a gate, a what would you I guess, you know, you're roping off the things that would harm you. So if you think of the law in that manner, that like what you want to do is rope off the things that would.

[00:25:35] Tonia: not align or disconnect with what you're doing. So you'll know the law so that you can operate inside of the things that are fair are

[00:25:48] Aicila: hmm. Mm

[00:25:49] Tonia: that will help

[00:25:50] Aicila: hmm. Well,

[00:25:51] Tonia: go ahead. Yes.

[00:25:56] Aicila: , my early twenties, my husband and I lived in a, [00:26:00] college town and we rented the apartment out. And we had a contract because you have a contract and we had some friends move in and so we didn't use a contract with them because they're our friends.

[00:26:10] Aicila: And that was the only one that was a mess. And it really gave me, even if it's not a contract, like I know you podcast all the time, but I still go through the same spiel and I follow the same process with everybody that comes on the show because I know that if I follow the process, then I'm going to make sure I check all my boxes and then I make sure my guest has what they need.

[00:26:28] Aicila: , Even if it's my friend, I still follow the same process. And I learned from that experience. I still use a contract, not because I don't trust them or we don't have that relationship. It's that, they talk about in therapy of a dual relationship. Now we have the whatever the contractual relationship is, and then we have the other one and. And it like, it hurt that friendship. Like we actually, I actually didn't, it wasn't just that, but we ended up sort of losing someone we cared about. And it, and I feel like if we had had the conversation up front and gone over the contract together and made [00:27:00] those expectations more clear and address the unconscious assumptions that we all had, that we either would have realized, oh, this isn't a great idea. We're gonna stress each other out in a way that we weren't anticipating because we liked each other. We're in our 20s, too. So, please guys, just that, we weren't totally jaded yet, you know.

[00:27:17] Aicila: And,

[00:27:19] Aicila: um, or we would have had those expectations properly presented so that we actually were understanding it.

[00:27:25] Aicila: It wasn't a surprise and we were also in an emotionally charged space. And I kind of think about it like that, and sometimes the law is like, really, you're like, really, that's the rule?

[00:27:34] Aicila: Okay. And

[00:27:35] Aicila: at the same time, if you both know it, and you're both aware of it, then it doesn't show up at a time when it feels like a problem, I guess.

[00:27:45] Tonia: you hit it right there. Because that's the thing that I want people to understand. Don't be afraid of the law. It really does. We say these words about safeguard, protect, and they feel very restrictive, but it just helps things keep you happy. It's one of the things I was [00:28:00] like if you legal protection is a form of self care.

[00:28:03] Tonia: I say that all the time because like you were saying, you were stressed. You lose friendships because it's, you It's taking that sense of assumption out. We're putting everything out here so that, Hey, we're being proactive. Things happen and they're beyond our control, or we haven't thought of this yet, but we want to make sure that every day that we're together, whatever we're doing, that.

[00:28:27] Tonia: Everyone is enjoying it. Everyone is getting out of it what they wanted to do. And sometimes we forget what we're supposed to do, right? And sometimes, We want to have these stipulations this part where, okay, what happens if I know I'm supposed to do something and I can't do it? Like, what's the penalty?

[00:28:50] Tonia: Is there going to be some way that we can go around it? We can adapt, we can modify it or Is it all [00:29:00] over and done? And if it's all over and done, what do we do? I mean, this is the thing. If you think about someone's going in, two people were cooking something, and someone's in charge of the ingredients and someone's in charge of the actual process of it.

[00:29:13] Tonia: Okay. What happens if, I didn't chop up something. Okay. Is it going to ruin everything or Have we already established? Okay, we'll work around that. I mean, it's the simplest of things. You do contracts every day when you're walking down the street, right? Depending on if you're supposed to be on the right or the left, the left or the right, right?

[00:29:37] Tonia: You have a nonverbal contract. With each other that I'm going to kind of let you pass in the way that is easy for you so that we can both get to our destinations, right? We're not going to hit against each other. We don't think about the things that we do. Even now we're talking. One person talks. One person doesn't talk.

[00:29:59] Tonia: We [00:30:00] talk together or understanding. These are contracts. If you look at it like that, then you can go into things With a little less, just fear, frustration and apprehension. But at the same time, there are things that sometimes people aren't going to do. What you expect of them. And yes, you think we talked about this a little bit earlier.

[00:30:28] Tonia: Maybe it's common sense. Oh, it's common sense that this person is going to pay on time. It's common sense. If I give them a service that they are going to appreciate it. If I ask them to do something, they're going to respond because they know I can't do anything until I get their Oh, it's common sense that if something Needs to be closed.

[00:30:53] Tonia: They'll close it. You have to contribute this X, Y, and Z. Things that are common sense to you are not common [00:31:00] sense to everyone else. And that applies to whether you're working with a business partner, your customers, or. Municipalities like things that you think, okay, if I do this, my city is supposed to do X, Y, Z.

[00:31:18] Tonia: No, you know, everyone doesn't do what they're supposed to do, even if this is the way that things are done. So you need to have something written. And I always stress, write it down, even if it's not in the best form, say this is who, this is the engagement. This is the transaction. This is what's supposed to be done.

[00:31:46] Tonia: I'm a part of this. You are part of this. I'm responsible for this. You are responsible for this. We both know and understand. And that's one of the things too, I'm going to talk about [00:32:00] really quick that you understand what the other person is talking about or asking you to do, because that's where a lot of contracts break down too.

[00:32:10] Tonia: And then if things don't go

[00:32:11] Aicila: we use, we use the same words and they mean different things.

[00:32:14] Aicila: Everybody has their own language, and it's very important when you're trying to do something to define terms. I'm also a language geek and I've studied lots of languages. I love words in general, but I've also found that once again, if you're up front, you define your terms and you say, what does this mean to you? And I love it when people say, let's meet after dinner. And I'll just be like, do you know, that's not a time.

[00:32:36] Tonia: This is

[00:32:38] Aicila: But people think they gave you a time. And then when you're not there at the time, they thought you'd be there. They're upset. And I'm like, no, you said after dinner, I eat at four.

[00:32:45] Aicila: like,

[00:32:48] Tonia: This is what this is everything that you're saying, because that's how really approach your contracts like that. You have to define the [00:33:00] terms first, you got to know what you want and what you're trying to convey. Yes. At the same time, right? Before you ask someone to do their part. And that's what I'm saying for people with their businesses, know your business, know what you're trying to offer the other person.

[00:33:15] Tonia: And then what you're asking for them in return for what you're giving them, this gets a very legal lease, but , it's, you are asking someone, Hey, I want you to meet me like you say, after dinner or after work. And you're like, okay, what does that mean? When, where, after work, I work from home, like, do I ever stop working or something like that?

[00:33:33] Tonia: What

[00:33:33] Aicila: Right. When is that?

[00:33:36] Tonia: place, you know,

[00:33:37] Aicila: Someone told me for marketing that if you're in general in different kinds of branding, when you talk about things, try to draw them. Now, I'm not a drawer by any means. And if you can't. If you can't draw it, if it's not concrete, then it's conceptual. And that means that it's being made up and it's everybody's concept of it. And I think legally, that's another maybe, [00:34:00] like, if you're making an agreement with someone, even if you're not signing an agreement, sit down and look at. Are these things things I could draw? I can draw the time. I guess it's not a great analogy, but it's more concrete.

[00:34:11] Aicila: If I say 7 o'clock versus after dinner and really look for that time bound or that physicality so that you know, you're actually using terms that you can both. actually relate to as opposed to concepts, which are a little bit murkier. And sometimes you have to use a concept, but be clear when you're doing that to avoid the miscommunications and misunderstandings that can lead to real trauma between people that actually like each other and want to work together.

[00:34:39] Tonia: Because if you don't basically define the terms and say, you can't execute it. Like, I can't do the thing because if. We're supposed to meet after work. We can't meet together. We're not going to meet together. If after work is four for you and after work is six for [00:35:00] me, there's a two hour difference that we're just not going to meet the meeting of the minds as people say.

[00:35:06] Tonia: There needs to be an understanding. So yeah, we have a contract, as I put an air quotes that we're going to meet after work for

[00:35:14] Aicila: Casablanca wouldn't have even happened if they'd had a contract, right? Like, there'd be no movie.

[00:35:20] Aicila: She'd have been, she'd have been doing her thing in the resistance, right? Like,

[00:35:24] Tonia: that, yeah.

[00:35:25] Aicila: I guess contracts don't lead to great movies because they lead to less drama. And, but I think better business means less drama.

[00:35:32] Aicila: So I'm for it. Real quick, before you have to top

[00:35:37] Aicila: off,

[00:35:37] Tonia: yes.

[00:35:38] Aicila: tell me some advice that you've received that has influenced the way you approach your work.

[00:35:43] Tonia: I would say to basically trust yourself. Trust yourself. You know what you want. You know your values, you know the impact that you want to make. [00:36:00] that what you vision is not only going to happen, but the way that you've been doing things. Whether you see that as have been in your life of success, know that it's steps.

[00:36:20] Tonia: There's these experiences that are going to get you to success. And you just, as people say, trust the process, but the process is trusting that, Hey, what I'm going to do, it's going to work out. It's going to be okay. It's going to be amazing. It's going to make great impact. And every experience. Every interaction I've had with someone else has given me that next success step to do the thing.

[00:36:54] Tonia: And then you go out and you get a little bit more of insight [00:37:00] from other people. But the first thing you have to do is trust that, Hey, you got a great idea. You got a great thought process. You got a great purpose and vision. Know that and then go. And get the insights to make that come into reality.

[00:37:18] Aicila: That's good advice. I, I think that applies in so many areas. And for folks that are listening, how do they learn more, follow you, get in touch, take one of your education classes, sign up for a consultation? Hmm.

[00:37:32] Tonia: I'm at tonia fisher. com and that'll give you all of the information. Yeah. I want you to join my newsletter, get the weekly tips. You'll hear a lot with legal as well as we do talk about your everyday business, what's going on in your life, because you are. You, your business is a part of you.

[00:37:53] Tonia: You're, you are not a part of your business, right? So Toniafisher. com. I'm on [00:38:00] LinkedIn linkedin. com slash Tonia Fisher. You can also find me on Instagram at Fisher. IP law. And I have a lot of fun things coming up because I love to make the law not only accessible, understandable, digestible, but interesting and engaging, but also fun.

[00:38:22] Tonia: But what I do when I help you with the law is also to help you have the confidence in what you do and be able to trust yourself as well as make extraordinarily amazing. on your communities.

[00:38:42] Aicila: Thank you. I so appreciate you taking the time to talk with us

[00:38:45] Aicila: today.

[00:38:46] Tonia: I enjoyed it. I enjoyed, I always love talking to you. Like I could talk to you for days, outside of the legal, I know it's just a legal, I talk about community, legal is so important and putting the community in your legal, in your business [00:39:00] and making it part of your values that that's how you succeed.

[00:39:04] Tonia: And you are one that always. Not preaches, teaches shows as an example of how to really have the values, stay with your values, but also really be concerned and effective to your community. And that to me, you're so outstanding that, it's just a pleasure knowing you. And so this has been just an honor to be on your show.

[00:39:37] Aicila: Thank you. I really appreciate that. It's an honor. And I definitely have enjoyed getting to know you and being in community with you. So thank you. That's going to with me for a while. Appreciate that.

[00:39:48] Tonia: Well, it is all the truth. It is all the truth.

[00:39:53] Aicila: Thank you. Well, thanks everybody for listening and I'll see you next week.

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